Linux phones are still behind android and iPhone, but the gap shrank a surprising amount while I wasn’t looking. These are damn near usable day to day phones now! But there are still a few things that need done and I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:
1 - tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation. A Linux phones could theoretically emulate one of these protocols and display a separate session on the head unit of a car. But I dont see any kind of project out there that already does this in an open-source kind of way. The closest I can find are some shady dongles on amazon that give wireless CarPlay to head units that normally require USB cables. It can be done, but I don’t see it being done in our community.
3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.
I started looking at Linux phones again because I loathe what apple is doing to this UI now and android has some interesting foldables but now that google is forcing Gemini into everything and you can’t turn it off, killing third party ROMS, and getting somehow even MORE invasive, that whole ecosystem seems like it’s about to march right off a cliff so its not an option anymore for me.
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tap to pay, voice assistants, carplay…everything I hate about modern phones. Don’t threaten me with a good time, Linux.
You may not like tap to pay or CarPlay but I and a lot of others do.
It’s a deal breaker for me to not have these two features in a product I’d like to spend hard earned money on.
But those features are not OS implementation issues. They are simply hardware driver issues.
So in other words they’re perfectly suited for day to day use?
I have zero need for any of the janky bullshit features you listed, so this is great news!
Literally my reaction. What is a good Linux phone to try?
3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.
Of all the things that my phone is supposed to be able to do this is the one thing I never touch. It has never worked better for me than just doing it with my own two thumbs.
Does anyone actually use their voice to control their phone (not voice typing)?
That’s funny, I never use 1 and 2, but I use 3 often.
I used to use tap to pay, but I recently acquired one of those adhesive credit card holders that has obviated my need for to pay.
I have an old car and just have my phone in a holder if I need to see turn by turn directions. Unfortunately the credit card holder fucks with the phone stand a little bit, but it mostly still works. The few times in my life I used android auto I disliked it.
I most often use voice assistant to ask for a song to play on Spotify. This was really convenient with “hey google” while I was driving or had my phone in my pocket listening to headphones, but I live without it these days.
I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:
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It doesn’t work on GrapheneOS either, so I got separate devices I carry with me that do the tap-to-pay instead, and they’ve been a godsend. They’re super compact as well and came for free when I opened the accounts.
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I don’t own a car, on ebike I use my screen.
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Normally I use my fingers. If they’re not available I yell cuss words at my phone until they’re available again.
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This is awesome because I don’t want or need any of those things. If this is all that’s missing, I think I’m ready for a Linux phone when my android dies.
RCS text messaging is another to consider, at least in the US. The carriers implanted it in a proprietary way, so only Apple and Google apps have it. It’s a poor substitute for an IM/chat app and not private and secure like it was promised due to poor implementations, but it’s still far better than plain SMS. I still have people I can’t get to use Signal or another secure IM app.
The Android Auto is the only one I’d be sad about. I love not having to use my phone’s screen for navigation and the navigation built into most cars is crap and expensive to keep maps and data updated. I like being able to use any navigation app, though Google Maps/Waze is still the only one I’ve found that has both live traffic info, which is extremely important with my city, and reading the street names rather than just “turn left” it says “turn left on some street” so I don’t have to look at the screen as much.
I use GrapheneOS and that’s what I won’t be able to replace once I finish my Immich and Home Assistant self host setups to replace Google Photos and Google Home/Nest, but st least they are sandboxed a bit.
Though Google has been moving to make it even more difficult to use their apps on these alternate OSes. Like I just found that Google Photos latest version pops up a not closeable error screen if it doesn’t have full “photos and video” access. Doesn’t work with the limited access or storage scopes that come with GrapheneOS, at least for now. I have photos I don’t want google to scan and index even if they are not being uploaded, which they do now. It’s obviously a ploy to get access to your data since it used to work fine. Now, I just use the mobile website instead until I have time to get Immich totally working and get people to switch if they want to see my stuff or share with me.
I think JMP.chat supports RCS, and it lets you text through Cheogram or another XMPP client. I believe it also upgrades the connection if both users are using Cheogram similar to Signal when it supported SMS
This is like a google voice number? Do they do VoIP and voicemail transcription, because I don’t have a replacement for Google voice yet.
Edit: yes they do voip, voicemail, and transcriptions, but they do not do RCS yet. When they do, I might consider switching, especially if I can use their voicemail for my regular number, like gv.
JMP does not (yet) support these features:
- RCS, which allows for video calls over the phone network.
Apparently the RCS is being tested still. Other than that, yes it’s similar to Google voice but the clients are open source
Which phone did you find where these are the only problem you encountered? I don’t care about any of these things and haven’t been finding any usable Linux phones.
What problems have you had?
They’re slow and clunky as fuck for starters. Cellular is very spotty.
Do you have a good alternative I can look into? I really, really, really want them to work. The only usable Linux phone I’ve seen is Jolla, but I’d much rather have Mobian or Arch on mobile or some other fully FLOSS alternative
I’m too deep into the android ecosystem, sadly, but if I found a good Linux phone I’d try it.
Voice assistant through homeassistant is great. You can plug into an AI. There are guys using the SIP plugin to dial chatgpt from a landline.
Of course, you can also self host AI models if you have the hardware. I’m not there myself yet… but the tech is ready.
Missing those things would be a feature for me.
I’m much more worried about having a usable battery life and having basic phone functions like WiFi calling and MMS work.
I see vo-LTE generally doesn’t work at all either.
I agree that missing these things are features IMO.
Typing this reply from SailfishOS with working VoLTE, MMS and all the things. Occasionally I have to restart a service but overall its pretty good
Tap-to-pay and car assistance are must-have in today’s world. 10-15 years ago, no. Today, yes. Bank apps is the other thing that can’t be done either (because bank apps want a “certified” system to run on). Here in Greece, it’s required you have a bank app on your phone to go with your daily life.
Yes, we all want a simpler life, like it was in the past, so we can envision an OS system that “it’s good enough”. But reality is not on our side. Linux as an open source community phone OS, made by non-commercial/non-corporate entities, can’t be an OS for the masses. It just won’t tick any boxes for them in today’s world. The current Linux phone OSes could be contenders 15 years ago, but not today.
I’ve never used tap to pay. I don’t want any banking info on my phone. In the US, we don’t need any payment apps. Cash and cards work just fine and never run out of battery power.
There’s no way I would ever connect my phone to a modern car with anything other than an aux cable or a bluetooth adapter that plugs into the headphone jack. They gather up all the data they can an do who knows what with it.
The US is not the world though. That’s something Americans need to learn. And having a solution for a single country does not work in the long run for that project. Not in the domain of OSes and phones. Either it’s universal, or it’s doomed to be a niche thing.
The only people that don’t use tap to pay in my area are grannies. And you do seem very old school since the last time I saw an aux cable was 10 years ago.
Are they must haves? I don’t use tap to pay, pretty useless feature for me.
Cars? I don’t want or need android auto. Bluetooth is the only thing I care about.
Navigation on the device is good enough for me, it doesnt need to use the screen.
I have no interest in mobile banking, but that could be an issue if people are used to sending money to each other instantly via a bank app.
Absolutely must haves for me personally, I use each probably daily. I don’t carry any cards with me and exclusively use tap to pay.
Tap to pay is a choice, with a viable alternative.
You could choose to NOT use tap to pay, carry a bank card, and it would have basically no impact on your ability to conduct your life.
But I agree the banking app itself is a big problem, and something that cannot be lived without.
Not to berate you but this is a bit of a Linux-pilled response.
Tap to pay and Android auto are conveniences that are of importance to a lot of people. Not everyone chooses to use it, but losing those features will mean Linux phones will exclude a significant proportion of the population that would otherwise be open to using them.
You can also choose NOT to have a phone at all… Or a bank account.
Just because you personally don’t find something needed doesn’t mean it’s true for others.
It is a choice, but one that I find important to adopting an alternate. I keep my wallet slim on purpose. Telling people their choices are wrong because you don’t agree with them is not going to get widespread adoption which is important for the long term health and success of such a ambitious project.
Cards are inconvenient
If you actually see what needs each country has for phones (by law), and also what needs normal users have, you would change your mind. It’s not just about one user here, one user there that doesn’t need these features, but the whole. I have an e/OS Murena phone (very private foss android fork) for example that I can’t use here in Greece because it doesn’t do banking (the bank app doesn’t work). Additionally, here in Greece we need gov apps (e.g. to get prescriptions, and to not have our ID with us all the time). These don’t run on “foss” versions of android (let alone clear linux OSs).
Yeah that would make me pretty damn angry. What about people who don’t have phones at all, what are they supposed to do?
No country should require the technology of 2 monopolies by law.
Navigating on a 6" screen is pretty annoying after getting used to the larger one.
“must-have” is subjective.
Yes these things are required to achieve wide spread adoption but I personally could do without them.
widespread adoption means you can get things like contributors who will then work on optimising battery life and other fundamentals.
Sure, but I feel like most people in this thread are evaluating what devices are viable for their own personal use right now.
Widespread adoption would be great, but I’m not evaluating whether a device is presently viable for widespread adoption.
Someone did do some work on reimplementing the Android Auto Client Server API.
Just needs time and interest.
God i wish I was smart enough to contribute to these things
It’s not too late, I have faith in you
Claude code can help
No it can’t. Why would someone maintaining a code base want to read and debug code submitted by someone else who didn’t even bother to write it, especially if I’m not already using Claude code or another vibe code generator.
Actually I don’t need any of those things you mention. It may be a mistake to assume that Linux phones should imitate Google/Apple phones.
Obviously this is subjective, but I use android auto all the time and something similar for a linux phone would be really nice for me. Don’t dismiss them just cause you wouldn’t use them
My thoughts exactly reading this list. I don’t use any of those as-is and have zero interest. I do agree Linux phones seem a bit behind at the moment, but as soon as they’re on par with say GrapheneOS, then we’re golden.
Same. Never use these things on Android.
It’s not that I want an imitation, but I do want certain functionalities to be available
Dunno. GPS and map apps seems pretty important for something more mobile than a laptop.
That’s about the connection to Car Play, not GPS
Doesn’t GPS work on Linux phones? As for map apps, OpenStreetMaps based apps are free and more acurate than google (atleast in my region), the only thing that might be lacking is realtime traffic information.
Is there an osmand app for Linux?
Not directly, here’s what we have:
https://linuxphoneapps.org/categories/maps-and-navigation/
Of these, at least PureMaps does turn-by-turn - as a no-car-person that last drove in meaningful way when paper maps where a thing, I am the wrong person to ask about car navigation stuff.
Additionally, there’s the OrganicMaps desktop flatpak (not a great experience, only good for seeing where you are) and zooming around. Fortunately, a work on a mobile-friendly Kirigami app for OrganicMaps has been funded by nlnet.
Also, runnning some web Maps in a browser (e.g., via https://linuxphoneapps.org/apps/dev.heppen.webapps/) is always an option (e.g., for browsing Google Maps for an open restaurant nearby).
One of the most useful things about OSMAnd to me is the Brouter integration for bike routes, so it would be great to see this as an option for Linux
@sudoer777 @1peter10 , but they can’t seem to keep the bots off it.
I fallback to a deGoogled phone precisely because Linux phone isn’t up to my expectation in terms of convenience for now.
You can check my post history but just during the last few days :
- replied to “Why did PinePhone fail” as I have 2 of these https://lemmy.ml/post/35398519/20774482
- discussed on banking apps, authentication bottlenecks on iOS/Android https://lemmy.ml/post/35398519/20854067
… so yes, not there yet
PS: on “assistant” (I really think the naming is over-blowing capabilities) I have been using HomeAssistant daily for years now. I have a Nabu Casu on my shelf… and didn’t even set it up because it was either 3rd party service dependencies (not why I rely on HA) or a very complex setup. So… I would recommend not looking there, at least few months ago when I received mine, sadly.
Help a non-techy out. I’ve fully switched my computers to Linux (fedora workstation, silver blue, and ubuntu). Been Linux only for several years now. Silverblue is probably my favorite. I’m willing to make the switch for my phone, too. But there are a few things I’m pretty reliant on:
My banking apps, cash app, and, embarrassing as it may be to admit, Grindr.
Any chance of getting those?
You can run Android apps on a Linux phone via Waydroid, but banking apps could be an issue if they force these Google intrgrity checks. Grindr probably does not?
Anyway, you should be able to fire up Waydroid on your Linux desktop and test this beforehand. I have never done this myself, so I might have misunderstood something.
Grindr doesn’t even work on GrapheneOS, it’s security checks are insane. I tried the modded Grindr app and they instantly banned my account, so I decided the app isn’t worth my time.
Baking apps: pin the websites Grindr: use waydroid or switch to sniffies Cash App: oof, I don’t know if waydroid will be enough for this one.
I’ve honestly never considered using my bank through a mobile browser. Yeah, it I can do that I’d be fine on that front.
Sniffies is completely dead here, and the dudes that are on it are gross. Grindr isn’t much better, but since everyone’s on it you can occasionally find people who are willing to use protection or hosting someone other than some bushes. I’ll try way droid and see if it works. If it doesn’t, I googled it and it says you can use Grindr from desktop if you pay… I may end up having to do that if I made the switch.
Which leaves cash app as the biggie. I’ll try waydroid, but if it doesn’t work I’ll probably end up needing to keep android or switching to iOS (I hate iPhones:( ), or maybe even getting a second phone I use exclusively for cash app. No sim, just my wifi hotspot (can you do a wifi hotspot with a Linux phone yet?). In order to prevent overdrafts and accidental charges, I never spend directly from my bank account. I transfer exactly what I’ll need for each purchase to cash app before the transaction and shop like that. Keeps me aware, and no accidental charges or surprises.
Baking apps: pin the websites
Typically if you want to check your account status sure, that work. Maybe do an IBAN transfer, if somehow 2nd step auth via their app isn’t required, but typically mobile payment, even if it’s not really mobile (e.g. scanning a QRcode on a desktop) requires their app. So in theory yes, in practice for most of the things people use banking daily it’s closer to mobile payment IMHO, which is basically owned by iOS/Android AFAICT.
Don’t want or need any of those things you mention. I want a phone, I want to be able to send messages, I want GPS and a camera. Good battery life, wifi and enough memory and storage… And then privacy…
Same. Has that been solved yet?
Vollaphone with Ubuntu touch can do that.
I thought Ububtu Touch was abandoned?
XL device
Ugh, nope. I want something small
It didn’t die but interest really died down. It’s still based on 20.04 if that’s any indicator and was on 16.04 before that.
I already don’t have any of those things on my de-googled android. I’m used to it. Sure, they would be nice, but it’s not a dealbreaker that I have to tap a card instead of my phone, or use Bluetooth instead of carplay, or type on my phone instead of talking to it.
The only thing I was missing without Google was push notifications. And that works out of the box on my /e/ OS FP5. It provides the same API as GSF, but with a different, anonymous push service. I doubt that there will ever be a workaround for Google Pay, because you need the intersection of a well-known company and low level device integration for that to work. And as you say, it’s not a big deal. The Graphene OS guys were pretty smug for a long while about how superior their sandboxed-GSF approach is, but look how that worked out for them. MicroG was always the right idea and if it can’t be done with MicroG it isn’t worth doing (on Android).
