Reform UK is clearly winning over the minds of class unconscious workers. One of them is a young relative of mine. I’d love to have a talk in future, in a good setting, to help the lad out of this reactionary path he’s headed now.

It’s the typical stuff: immigrants committing sexual violence, stealing jobs, out breeding the “whites”, coming into the country illegally, given all the money, not working, benefit exploiting, being uncivilised savages etc.

I’ve heard the co-workers are enforcing this reactionary world view. Obviously I cannot barge in to the workplace, and change the environment, so I’m expecting this will take quite a bit longer than one afternoon tea lasts.

I believe he’ll be a fine lad, if he doesn’t fall any further, and finds a way out. I just feel I shouldn’t let him to dive deeper. There is already plenty of fascist propaganda to dispel.

How would you, dear online comrades, go about setting a young lumpen lad on the path to gain class consciousness?


PS. Title in the tune of Drunken Sailor.

  • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    18 days ago

    No argument from me here against that.

    What I would like to stress how we go about it in a more exacting way: make one’s case that adopting one’s perspective will provide a material benefit within the short term to the person or group you are targeting and if one fails to do so then consider the relative class characteristics that obstructs this, and thereby refining how and whom you approach.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      18 days ago

      I definitely agree that making the material case is very persuasive and we should do it, but that’s not what you were saying.

      We were talking about brainwashing.

      When someone is so exposed to years of algorithmic lies and ideological programming that they actually do not understand their own material interests i.e. someone with preexisting conditions refusing to mask, even when they’re asked to and would only benefit from it and there aren’t downsides like heat or exertion. There are times when the material case will not reach someone because they have been mislead and miseducated.

      That’s what it is to be brainwashed.

      • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        18 days ago

        When someone is so exposed to years of algorithmic lies and ideological programming that they actually do not understand their own material interests i.e. someone with preexisting conditions refusing to mask, even when they’re asked to and would only benefit from it and there aren’t downsides like heat or exertion. There are times when the material case will not reach someone because they have been mislead and miseducated.

        I think that miseducation only sticks if there is an ongoing perceived material benefit.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          18 days ago

          “Perceived” is doing some work there.

          Making people perceive benefits that aren’t real can also be called a form of brainwashing.

          • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            18 days ago

            And that perception is rooted in reality. Western labour collaborate against the global south because they materially benefit from this exploitation.

            We are talking about this in the context of attempting to convince someone off their fascist sympathies. I offered a mutually acceptable pragmatism in the context of persuasion with a focus on class analysis, which I would like to stress was my original point, but you want to double down on idealist concepts of indoctrination. I am not going to entertain Western Apologism.

            If your paradigm of persuasion does not evolve past what a liberal can offer then it is not my burden to bear to rob the oppressor and his class collaborators of their agency.

              • rainpizza@lemmygrad.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                17 days ago

                False consciousness exists as well as the choice to accept the lies behind it. In other words, people have the choice to believe into racist, classist or any supremacist idea promoted by capitalism.

                People aren’t brainless/helpless victims but conscious beings choosing to look for ideas that makes them feel superior to the unfortunate under capitalism.

                The point of the RedSails article is to highlight that people are capable of choosing to abandon those supremacist/pro-capitalist lies in favor of liberation. Ignoring that capacity to choose is not helpful but it leads you to look down on people.

              • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                18 days ago

                Do you just… not believe false consciousness exists?

                To choose to engage in such idealism warrants an insulation from the consequences that only orientialism could afford. The prejudice that allows the oppressor and his collaborator this leeway derives from a material privilege to accomodate such an apologism.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  17 days ago

                  There are people who kill themselves and their families by refusing to mask. They don’t seem insulated from consequences to me?

                  • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    17 days ago

                    They live in the privilege that COVID disproportionately affect people of colour due to inequal access to healthcare and comorbidities reflecting wealth distrubutions.

                    I wonder why that escaped you.

                    I wonder what the differences in lived experiences and demographics who read that Redsails article and say yeah that better reflects their reality versus those who feel they feel better served still by liberal concepts of indoctrination and brainwashing putting the ideal before the material.