That’s also why the best way to relieve traffic is to go at a slow even pace without braking. Every time the someone in heavy traffic runs up the ass of another car and brakes hard, or swerves into the “faster” lane and make someone else brake to not hit them, they cause another brake wave. If you have a few cars intentionally just hanging back and cruising with a big enough gap between them and the cars jocking for position in traffic in front of them, then their brake waves do not propogate behind you and eventually traffic just picks up pace again.
Edit: side bonus, you still get there just as fast, but with a lot less stress fighting assholes for position (minus the ones who fly past you thinking you’re the asshole for not riding someone else’s bumper)
Yeah, in theory it’s great but every time I try it people just cut in front of me then slam on brakes causing me to have to brake then adjust then repeat ad nauseam. People suck.
Yeah, maybe I’m fooling myself but it really seems like hanging back more makes me have to do more sudden braking. Traffic seems smoothest when I’m close enough to discourage cut-ins …. Even if that means Im more at the mercy of traffic in front flowing down a bit
But as a corollary, this is one of the reasons fewer lanes are sometimes better. A main road near me proved this out when they cut back from two lanes in each direction to one plus turn lanes. There’s no more jockeying for position, no more cut-in’s and you no longer have to protect your gap. Traffic is smooth and calm, and it improved accident statistics. Most importantly timing to get through that section is consistently better!
This is why I thought that maybe it would be good to have some kind of pacing cars, e.g. operated by traffic police? I.e. when you already know or can anticipate that there is a large jam building up, you bring in one pacing car on every lane at an appropriate low speed and everyone has to adjust, so the thing you mentioned won’t happen.
The problem with that is people would still do the same stupid shit behind the pace cars which would just cause the same issues.
The only way traffic pace cars would work is with better fundamental training (and enforcement of that training [meaning cops would actually have to regularly ticket people for tailgating]).
Especially here in the usa there are hardly any barriers to getting/keeping your license.
There is a massive amount of drivers who either shouldn’t be on the road at all or with heavy restrictions like not allowed to drive at night, not allowed on the highway, not allowed to drive certain classes of cars (kinda like other countries do for motorcycles because there is zero reason for any joe schmoe to just be able to legally get behind the wheel of something like a supercar on public roads)
Or we could just build trains and other alternatives to cars, which would end up cheaper, faster, safer, environmentally friendly, …but we have big oil.
Nah, cops being on the highway is one of the big causes of traffic. Everyone slows down to the speed limit when they come up on a cop and many are too timid to pass at all. This causes a huge brake wave and fucks everything up. It’s why I don’t think speed limits should even be a thing or should at least be adjusted because most highways are so low that just about everyone ignores them (and is not harmed doing so) until law enforcement appears. If people want to go slower that’s fine but they need to keep right when they aren’t passing and everyone needs to leave plenty of space in front of them so that traffic is permeable enough that people can get to their exit without causing brake waves and absorb the “shock” when it is necessary for someone to hit their brakes.
You need to give even more space then so that them doing that doesnt make you slow down. People cutting in front of you also helps because those are the assholes causing the brake waves.
Edit: down voters, I’m not saying that he “needs” to do anything as in it is his responsibility or he’s to blame. I’m saying that, if he is going to employ this strategy, that making room for pricks swerving in front of you needs to be part of that strategy in order for the desired outcome to happen. If they are making you brake, then your attempts will not work.
This is actually an argument for why these features should be mandatory. Traffic is caused by humans and their silly emotions. These types of self driving features with inter-communication would erase traffic jams.
Everyone is doing 15+ under. We’re taking stop and go traffic. What are you talking about?
Edit: Also the least effective place to do this is the right lane. The right lane can have traffic because exits are backup up onto the highway. The left lanes are the ones only getting backed up due to brake waves.
Adaptive cruise control FTW. Matches speed with the person ahead of me (up to the max that I set) and maintains a gap that I can specify. It starts slowing down long before I’d notice the gap closing if I were doing it myself, so the +/- acceleration is a lot smoother as a result.
So, I don’t know exactly how the adaptive cruise control works. But if it is slowing down and speeding up to maintain a specific distance, that does not fix things. The idea is to maintain a specific speed such that, as the people in front of you accelerate and brake, speed up and slow down, you have enough distance to not have to do that. You should essentially match their average speed with enough gap that their braking doesn’t put them close enough to your bumper that you have to slow down yourself. Normal cruise control would be better (except mine won’t set at speeds under, I think, 20mph) because your speed wont change. Adaptive cruise would make your drive safer, maybe, keeping you from being too close or failing to react to the change in traffic speeds, but I dont think it would solve the traffic issue itself.
You’re right of course, the reason traffic exists is because you, DancingBear, cannot be on every roadway in America at the same time.
Seriously dude, have you ever been in traffic? I’m not talking about a small slowdown on a one, two lane, or even four lane road. I’m talking about sitting on the 5 or the 101 in any of the multiple times it becomes a parking lot daily.
Manually maintaining a large gap in front of you is not solving that shit, and it’s frankly ridiculous to suggest that it will.
It’s not “locked” to a specific distance, it’s fairly elastic and the exact follow distance varies based on speed. So, if traffic slows down, it will gradually close the gap while also slowing down. The end result then is far less drastic speed changes.
Californians te the worst drivers in the world because none of them understand this simple concept. Every day I’m driving, I give more than enough space in front of me for someone to cut me off and I don’t have to brake. It’s simple. However, I’m constantly getting people riding my ass. Switching around me. And being over all menaces just because I’m leaving a roper gap between myself and the car in front of me. It’s wild.
Im driving the speed limit in the right hand lane and you ride my ass - I let off the gas to the minimum speed (here its usually 45mph)
Im actively passing in the left lane and you ride my ass I let off the gas.
When the idots back off I speed back up. If they start riding me again I slow back down. After a few times of this they usually pull their heads out of their asses and back off/ properly change lanes.
Right, if you think about the creation of traffic as a negative speed wave which causes compression, and traffic alleviation as a positive speed wave which requires rarefaction, then it becomes clear why traffic is so stubborn. When people are so bunched together, no positive speed wave can propagate. Which is why you literally get to to the point where the original idiot slammed on the brakes and the traffic magically disintegrates. If everyone stayed 5 car lengths apart in traffic, that alleviation would actually propagate backwards as fast as the initial congestion.
That’s also why the best way to relieve traffic is to go at a slow even pace without braking. Every time the someone in heavy traffic runs up the ass of another car and brakes hard, or swerves into the “faster” lane and make someone else brake to not hit them, they cause another brake wave. If you have a few cars intentionally just hanging back and cruising with a big enough gap between them and the cars jocking for position in traffic in front of them, then their brake waves do not propogate behind you and eventually traffic just picks up pace again.
Edit: side bonus, you still get there just as fast, but with a lot less stress fighting assholes for position (minus the ones who fly past you thinking you’re the asshole for not riding someone else’s bumper)
Yeah, in theory it’s great but every time I try it people just cut in front of me then slam on brakes causing me to have to brake then adjust then repeat ad nauseam. People suck.
Yeah, maybe I’m fooling myself but it really seems like hanging back more makes me have to do more sudden braking. Traffic seems smoothest when I’m close enough to discourage cut-ins …. Even if that means Im more at the mercy of traffic in front flowing down a bit
But as a corollary, this is one of the reasons fewer lanes are sometimes better. A main road near me proved this out when they cut back from two lanes in each direction to one plus turn lanes. There’s no more jockeying for position, no more cut-in’s and you no longer have to protect your gap. Traffic is smooth and calm, and it improved accident statistics. Most importantly timing to get through that section is consistently better!
This is why I thought that maybe it would be good to have some kind of pacing cars, e.g. operated by traffic police? I.e. when you already know or can anticipate that there is a large jam building up, you bring in one pacing car on every lane at an appropriate low speed and everyone has to adjust, so the thing you mentioned won’t happen.
The problem with that is people would still do the same stupid shit behind the pace cars which would just cause the same issues.
The only way traffic pace cars would work is with better fundamental training (and enforcement of that training [meaning cops would actually have to regularly ticket people for tailgating]).
Especially here in the usa there are hardly any barriers to getting/keeping your license.
There is a massive amount of drivers who either shouldn’t be on the road at all or with heavy restrictions like not allowed to drive at night, not allowed on the highway, not allowed to drive certain classes of cars (kinda like other countries do for motorcycles because there is zero reason for any joe schmoe to just be able to legally get behind the wheel of something like a supercar on public roads)
Or we could just build trains and other alternatives to cars, which would end up cheaper, faster, safer, environmentally friendly, …but we have big oil.
(Sry, I had to)
This is about 2 decades old now but a bunch of people tried something sorta like a pacing car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ
Nah, cops being on the highway is one of the big causes of traffic. Everyone slows down to the speed limit when they come up on a cop and many are too timid to pass at all. This causes a huge brake wave and fucks everything up. It’s why I don’t think speed limits should even be a thing or should at least be adjusted because most highways are so low that just about everyone ignores them (and is not harmed doing so) until law enforcement appears. If people want to go slower that’s fine but they need to keep right when they aren’t passing and everyone needs to leave plenty of space in front of them so that traffic is permeable enough that people can get to their exit without causing brake waves and absorb the “shock” when it is necessary for someone to hit their brakes.
I feel like regular patrol cars might work like this already - who’s going to blow past a cop driving down the road?
me, because i know what speed they’ll pull me over at and if they’re doing 20 under that, who cares
I feel that
Works for me even with cut ins, gets easier with practice I’d say! Couple interesting YouTube videos on it, one here:
trafficwaves.org
Then leave another gap. There are finite idiots in the world, and you cannot actually go backwards.
You need to give even more space then so that them doing that doesnt make you slow down. People cutting in front of you also helps because those are the assholes causing the brake waves.
Edit: down voters, I’m not saying that he “needs” to do anything as in it is his responsibility or he’s to blame. I’m saying that, if he is going to employ this strategy, that making room for pricks swerving in front of you needs to be part of that strategy in order for the desired outcome to happen. If they are making you brake, then your attempts will not work.
I have adaptive cruise with a settable car length and increasing the gap length just makes the cars behind you act more deranged.
I’ve found the only setting that doesn’t make everyone around me fly off the handle is the lowest (one car gap) setting.
I also drive in the diamond lane on long trips and typically have my upper speed limit set well above what the person in front of me is driving.
This is actually an argument for why these features should be mandatory. Traffic is caused by humans and their silly emotions. These types of self driving features with inter-communication would erase traffic jams.
At that point, you’re the guy doing 15 mph under the limit in the left lane.
Please only attempt this in the right lane.
Everyone is doing 15+ under. We’re taking stop and go traffic. What are you talking about?
Edit: Also the least effective place to do this is the right lane. The right lane can have traffic because exits are backup up onto the highway. The left lanes are the ones only getting backed up due to brake waves.
Nicely demonstrated here: https://youtu.be/Suugn-p5C1M
I couldn’t even see the traffic start because the fucking “Related Videos!” popups. God I hate what youtube has become.
Adaptive cruise control FTW. Matches speed with the person ahead of me (up to the max that I set) and maintains a gap that I can specify. It starts slowing down long before I’d notice the gap closing if I were doing it myself, so the +/- acceleration is a lot smoother as a result.
So, I don’t know exactly how the adaptive cruise control works. But if it is slowing down and speeding up to maintain a specific distance, that does not fix things. The idea is to maintain a specific speed such that, as the people in front of you accelerate and brake, speed up and slow down, you have enough distance to not have to do that. You should essentially match their average speed with enough gap that their braking doesn’t put them close enough to your bumper that you have to slow down yourself. Normal cruise control would be better (except mine won’t set at speeds under, I think, 20mph) because your speed wont change. Adaptive cruise would make your drive safer, maybe, keeping you from being too close or failing to react to the change in traffic speeds, but I dont think it would solve the traffic issue itself.
You aren’t solving traffic as an individual driver anyway. Sorry to burst everyone’s atomized bubble here but that’s complete nonsense.
If you manually maintain a large gap in front of you, everyone behind you becomes complete weirdos.
We could “solve traffic” by not requiring single occupant car drives to accomplish everything in our daily lives.
You’re quite literally incorrect and talking out of your ass
You’re right of course, the reason traffic exists is because you, DancingBear, cannot be on every roadway in America at the same time.
Seriously dude, have you ever been in traffic? I’m not talking about a small slowdown on a one, two lane, or even four lane road. I’m talking about sitting on the 5 or the 101 in any of the multiple times it becomes a parking lot daily.
Manually maintaining a large gap in front of you is not solving that shit, and it’s frankly ridiculous to suggest that it will.
Keep beating your straw man I guess
Do you also believe that only you can prevent forest fires? Or that we can recycle our way out of climate change?
Get real. Uncoordinated individual actions cannot solve systemic problems.
In the case of traffic, keeping a larger following distance can quite literally solve the stop and go break waves that occur…
Trying to race ahead and get ahead by one car at a time makes the problem worse.
That’s all this is saying.
You can not solve the problem ahead of you, you can only affect the traffic behind you.
It’s not “locked” to a specific distance, it’s fairly elastic and the exact follow distance varies based on speed. So, if traffic slows down, it will gradually close the gap while also slowing down. The end result then is far less drastic speed changes.
Californians te the worst drivers in the world because none of them understand this simple concept. Every day I’m driving, I give more than enough space in front of me for someone to cut me off and I don’t have to brake. It’s simple. However, I’m constantly getting people riding my ass. Switching around me. And being over all menaces just because I’m leaving a roper gap between myself and the car in front of me. It’s wild.
When idiots ride my ass I slow down.
Im driving the speed limit in the right hand lane and you ride my ass - I let off the gas to the minimum speed (here its usually 45mph)
Im actively passing in the left lane and you ride my ass I let off the gas.
When the idots back off I speed back up. If they start riding me again I slow back down. After a few times of this they usually pull their heads out of their asses and back off/ properly change lanes.
You think drivers from your <country/state/city> are bad? That’s because you have never driven in my <country/state/city>
huh, they seem to get that concept on the highways i drive on. big state though, we could live ten hours apart from each other.
Haha true! I’m talking about Southern California. Los Angeles and Orange County.
Right, if you think about the creation of traffic as a negative speed wave which causes compression, and traffic alleviation as a positive speed wave which requires rarefaction, then it becomes clear why traffic is so stubborn. When people are so bunched together, no positive speed wave can propagate. Which is why you literally get to to the point where the original idiot slammed on the brakes and the traffic magically disintegrates. If everyone stayed 5 car lengths apart in traffic, that alleviation would actually propagate backwards as fast as the initial congestion.
Preach truth, Krypty