"Ah, but they choose to act on it! You see, my old preacher struggled with gay thoughts all the time because of Satan. He told us so nearly every Sunday. But did he act on them? No! He was straight, just as god intended.
So those people having gay thoughts are CHOOSING to be gay when they could pray and get a wife and have children like the lord said."
“You know what I’m talking about; the homosexual fantasies the devil constantly sends into everyone’s heads since they became teenagers. Those ones. … What do you mean ‘no’?”
Tangentially related, or at least it made me think of it.
Orson Scott Card said this:
Ender’s childhood is based, albeit loosely, on my own; his relationship with Peter and Valentine is based, not on my actual relationship with my older brother and sister, but rather on the way I conceived those relationships to be when I was Ender’s age. Ender’s revised understanding of Peter late in life parallels in emotion the same revision I went through in my teens as I discovered… my childish view of my older brother was hopelessly wrong
For those that don’t know, Peter abused the hell out of Ender. Not a huge spoiler. Another time he said this:
The dark secret of homosexual society … is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse
Then he went on to write several of the same character. Either homosexual or asexual who takes a wife in order to raise children. But it’s literally never about the woman. Anton was mostly open about his sexuality but married a woman. Ender had no sexual urges (there was a lot of underage homo-adjacent stuff and some sister stuff, but not necessarily gay) until he married. And did he marry her for her? Nope. The first thing he thinks of is how her 6 kids need him. Ansset is gay and married a woman. It’s pretty obvious he believes a lot of folks are gay because they were abused and it’s pretty obvious he was abused. And he believes those men should get married and raise children because that’s the highest calling.
I’m not usually a “homophobic means closeted homosexual” but I’m of the firm belief that Card is so far in the closet he’s finding Christmas presents.
He also wrote Wyrm (teenage girl is biologically destined to be impregnated by worm monster, that’s literally what the entire book is about) and Harts Hope (our hero has to rape a teenage princess in front of her entire kingdom for reasons, this turns her evil and she becomes the main antagonist.)
I act on all the homosexual urges I have. They just happen to be zero. If you have homosexual urges it’s likely because you’re gay. I’m not really sure why this concept is so hard especially for the ultra religious….
Or they’re bi. I grew up ultra religious and the choice explanation made more sense to me because I had both homo and hetero urges, and I assumed it was the same for everyone (I thought of people who claimed otherwise as self-righteous). In my mind at the time homosexual urges were just part of people’s sinful nature they had to overcome. The whole thing only seems so incoherent from an outside perspective, which I was fortunately able to arrive at after experiencing the world more.
Yeah I bet that was confusing. Being brought up that homosexuality was a choice and you had feelings for both would have been difficult at best, especially before you had a chance to really see how it all worked.
Something like this is what encouraged my wife’s conservative grandmother to reconsider her thoughts on the topic. She heard about a gay teen who committed suicide and asked “if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
“if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
Props to gramma. A lot of conservative people honestly just would dismiss it with the backwards logic; “so stupid of them to kill themselves when they could’ve just chosen not to be gay”.
I’m unsure whether they actually believe it themselves, though.
No this is literally it though. They think being gay is a choice because they’re repressed, and constantly feel tempted. They assume everyone feels that, and only gay people give in.
This. When I was a kid, I thought every man in the world had this envy of womanhood and that was the reason women were oversexualized in media, because men wished they looked like that.
That it was just quietly accepted.
Heck in Who Framed Roger Rabbit I thought the line “You don’t know how hard it is being a man, looking at a woman, looking the way you do.” Was a direct reference to the natural Venus Envy of the male gender.
Nope just my trans ass misinterpreting an erection joke because its the 90s and families and media both aren’t allowed to talk about gender with any nuance yet.
The various “Girl Power! Women can do anything!” Tropes were also something young me misinterpreted as “Venus Envy” being the natural state of society. Like women knew they were “superior” and were flaunting it to be mean.
Sexism against women? Young me doesn’t know what that is or why fighting it is important. Believed in sexism against men though… I was so dumb and confused.
Oh, I’m well aware. Not once have I ever been tempted to tickle a pickle that wasn’t my own. I’ve never struggled with homosexual thoughts. If I had I can almost promise I’d be face down in a whole pile of dicks right now.
I was quoting, as accurately as I could, a dipshit I know. I haven’t seen him since high school, right after I left the church, but this always stuck with me. I knew that pastor as well. That guy talked all the time about how Satan was going to make everyone gay and how he was tempted so he understood what the youth was going through. I remember being 14 and wondering when I’d get secret gay thoughts because of this dude. Apparently I was so steeped in sin that Satan didn’t feel the need to make me want to gobble cocks as well.
It’s a damn shame because I think I would have made an excellent gay guy.
I have said for a long time that the number of bisexual people must be huge. All of these right-wingers seem to be equally attracted to men and women, so they’re obviously bi and choosing to ignore part of their own sexuality.
As I said to my parents when they said something similar:
Not everyone is a 0 or 6 on the Kinsey scale. Plenty of people have some amount of choice. But not everyone is a 3, either. Most people have a preference. And some people are a 0 or 6. Just because one person with “gay temptations” successfully lived as a heterosexual doesn’t mean everyone can. The world is more complicated than that.
Here’s the thing, whether or not it’s a “lifestyle” shouldn’t even enter into the equation. Healthcare workers are supposed to treat everyone the same, regardless of what the patient has done or how they live. If you can’t deal with that, don’t go into healthcare.
Well, it’s a bit of both. The ostracized nature of ‘different’ people has spawned several sub-cultures that most ‘different’ people fall in to to some degree or another.
Not that anything is wrong with either being different or living differently. Hegemonic monocultures are so… fucking… BORING.
I’ve even seen it flipped around by the people who invented the term in the first place. “They call it a lifestyle, but that’s a euphemism for gross behavior”. Well, not those exact words. “Euphemism” has too many syllables for their education level.
Very much not true for all. Some realise things over time, but most were born like they are. Some also do choose things, but it’s a very small percentage and that in no way makes it any less important to accept and support.
I believe that people are born with the same primitive instincts as everyone else, (survive and reproduce) but they gradually begin to develop their own feelings and sense of being. Some natural, some by trauma, etc, overcoming the expectations of your parents being the biggest hurdle.
I’m just simply saying that people aren’t born knowing they’re a part of that community until they’ve come to a realization or a spark.
Just my opinion. Just how I observed a family member and his experiences. Sadly, no one accepted him and he’s gone now. But I read his journals about how he felt, came to being, etc afterwards. Just wanted to understand.
The absolute gall they have to call it a “lifestyle” like people choose to live that way one day
It’s not a fucking lifestyle, LGBTQ+ people just are and they exist
They don’t choose to suddenly be that way one day, they have been that way their entire life and discover that about themselves
"Ah, but they choose to act on it! You see, my old preacher struggled with gay thoughts all the time because of Satan. He told us so nearly every Sunday. But did he act on them? No! He was straight, just as god intended.
So those people having gay thoughts are CHOOSING to be gay when they could pray and get a wife and have children like the lord said."
-Some dipshit I know
“He resisted his homosexual urges, and remained faithful to his heterosexual wife until the very day he shot himself.”
“You know what I’m talking about; the homosexual fantasies the devil constantly sends into everyone’s heads since they became teenagers. Those ones. … What do you mean ‘no’?”
Tangentially related, or at least it made me think of it.
Orson Scott Card said this:
For those that don’t know, Peter abused the hell out of Ender. Not a huge spoiler. Another time he said this:
Then he went on to write several of the same character. Either homosexual or asexual who takes a wife in order to raise children. But it’s literally never about the woman. Anton was mostly open about his sexuality but married a woman. Ender had no sexual urges (there was a lot of underage homo-adjacent stuff and some sister stuff, but not necessarily gay) until he married. And did he marry her for her? Nope. The first thing he thinks of is how her 6 kids need him. Ansset is gay and married a woman. It’s pretty obvious he believes a lot of folks are gay because they were abused and it’s pretty obvious he was abused. And he believes those men should get married and raise children because that’s the highest calling.
I’m not usually a “homophobic means closeted homosexual” but I’m of the firm belief that Card is so far in the closet he’s finding Christmas presents.
He also wrote Wyrm (teenage girl is biologically destined to be impregnated by worm monster, that’s literally what the entire book is about) and Harts Hope (our hero has to rape a teenage princess in front of her entire kingdom for reasons, this turns her evil and she becomes the main antagonist.)
Card’s fucked up a lot more than “closet gay.”
I act on all the homosexual urges I have. They just happen to be zero. If you have homosexual urges it’s likely because you’re gay. I’m not really sure why this concept is so hard especially for the ultra religious….
Or they’re bi. I grew up ultra religious and the choice explanation made more sense to me because I had both homo and hetero urges, and I assumed it was the same for everyone (I thought of people who claimed otherwise as self-righteous). In my mind at the time homosexual urges were just part of people’s sinful nature they had to overcome. The whole thing only seems so incoherent from an outside perspective, which I was fortunately able to arrive at after experiencing the world more.
Yeah I bet that was confusing. Being brought up that homosexuality was a choice and you had feelings for both would have been difficult at best, especially before you had a chance to really see how it all worked.
Something like this is what encouraged my wife’s conservative grandmother to reconsider her thoughts on the topic. She heard about a gay teen who committed suicide and asked “if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
Props to gramma. A lot of conservative people honestly just would dismiss it with the backwards logic; “so stupid of them to kill themselves when they could’ve just chosen not to be gay”.
I’m unsure whether they actually believe it themselves, though.
No this is literally it though. They think being gay is a choice because they’re repressed, and constantly feel tempted. They assume everyone feels that, and only gay people give in.
This. When I was a kid, I thought every man in the world had this envy of womanhood and that was the reason women were oversexualized in media, because men wished they looked like that.
That it was just quietly accepted.
Heck in Who Framed Roger Rabbit I thought the line “You don’t know how hard it is being a man, looking at a woman, looking the way you do.” Was a direct reference to the natural Venus Envy of the male gender.
Nope just my trans ass misinterpreting an erection joke because its the 90s and families and media both aren’t allowed to talk about gender with any nuance yet.
The various “Girl Power! Women can do anything!” Tropes were also something young me misinterpreted as “Venus Envy” being the natural state of society. Like women knew they were “superior” and were flaunting it to be mean.
Sexism against women? Young me doesn’t know what that is or why fighting it is important. Believed in sexism against men though… I was so dumb and confused.
Oh, I’m well aware. Not once have I ever been tempted to tickle a pickle that wasn’t my own. I’ve never struggled with homosexual thoughts. If I had I can almost promise I’d be face down in a whole pile of dicks right now.
I was quoting, as accurately as I could, a dipshit I know. I haven’t seen him since high school, right after I left the church, but this always stuck with me. I knew that pastor as well. That guy talked all the time about how Satan was going to make everyone gay and how he was tempted so he understood what the youth was going through. I remember being 14 and wondering when I’d get secret gay thoughts because of this dude. Apparently I was so steeped in sin that Satan didn’t feel the need to make me want to gobble cocks as well.
It’s a damn shame because I think I would have made an excellent gay guy.
I have said for a long time that the number of bisexual people must be huge. All of these right-wingers seem to be equally attracted to men and women, so they’re obviously bi and choosing to ignore part of their own sexuality.
As I said to my parents when they said something similar:
Not everyone is a 0 or 6 on the Kinsey scale. Plenty of people have some amount of choice. But not everyone is a 3, either. Most people have a preference. And some people are a 0 or 6. Just because one person with “gay temptations” successfully lived as a heterosexual doesn’t mean everyone can. The world is more complicated than that.
Here’s the thing, whether or not it’s a “lifestyle” shouldn’t even enter into the equation. Healthcare workers are supposed to treat everyone the same, regardless of what the patient has done or how they live. If you can’t deal with that, don’t go into healthcare.
Well, it’s a bit of both. The ostracized nature of ‘different’ people has spawned several sub-cultures that most ‘different’ people fall in to to some degree or another.
Not that anything is wrong with either being different or living differently. Hegemonic monocultures are so… fucking… BORING.
I’ve even seen it flipped around by the people who invented the term in the first place. “They call it a lifestyle, but that’s a euphemism for gross behavior”. Well, not those exact words. “Euphemism” has too many syllables for their education level.
Not suddenly, but gradually
Very much not true for all. Some realise things over time, but most were born like they are. Some also do choose things, but it’s a very small percentage and that in no way makes it any less important to accept and support.
They gradually do not choose to be themselves? I don’t understand.
M137 understood what I meant.
I believe that people are born with the same primitive instincts as everyone else, (survive and reproduce) but they gradually begin to develop their own feelings and sense of being. Some natural, some by trauma, etc, overcoming the expectations of your parents being the biggest hurdle.
I’m just simply saying that people aren’t born knowing they’re a part of that community until they’ve come to a realization or a spark.
Just my opinion. Just how I observed a family member and his experiences. Sadly, no one accepted him and he’s gone now. But I read his journals about how he felt, came to being, etc afterwards. Just wanted to understand.