We like to talk about drugs like there’s this clear delineation between something that is and isn’t medicine… but it really comes down to the situation and the dosage.
For much of history and in most places, liquor was the most effective painkiller available. More recently, fentanyl started as a synthetic, medical grade painkiller. It’s still widely used across hospitals for that. Before synthetics, it was opium (otherwise known as heroin), derived from poppy plants.
Not just painkiller, a bit of alcohol will kill tons of nasties, so it was often the case that lightly fermented drinks are safer and healthier than many water sources.
It’s derived from petrochemicals but it works on the same receptors. And 50 years ago people were screeching about heroin, a completely unnatural man made synthesized drug far more potent than opium (which is roughly 10% morphine, heroin being around 2-3x stronger than pure morphine), in much the same way they are screeching about fentanyl now. “It’s a scourge, it kills people, it’s destructive” etc
All of those things can be true and fentanyl is absolutely far more dangerous given its potency (though giving someone with 0 opioid tolerance heroin isn’t necessarily safe either).
The real enemy is addiction, and the real real enemy there is a lack of resources and empathy. A lack of supports, a lack of housing, a lack of meaningful jobs and supportive welfare, a lack of healthcare, a lack of a society that doesn’t focus on punitive incarceration efforts over rehabilitative treatment and equitable respect
But keep focusing on the fentanyl boogeyman. Or tranq. That’s the problem. Just get that off the streets and it’ll all go away
A lot of people got sold what they thought were prescription pain pills, but were actually fentanyl. Some died the first time they took. No amount of empathy is solving that, you need the drug and dealers off the streets.
With Fentanyl it’s different. It can be lethal the first time you try it. We might say addiction is one problem but lack of regulation and predictability in dosage is also a problem. Much of what’s dangerous about illicit drugs is not knowing quite what you are getting.
Heroin addiction can also be immediate, so I’d say the mere availability of the drug is a problem. It’s not just that sometimes an addiction develops and then there’s a problem.
I agree with most of what you said, just not this one part. It’s an antiquated point of view from rosier times with less dangerous drugs on the street.
addiction is never, ever immediate. dependency is only one part of addiction.
ragebutt is pretty on point here. you are correct though that the lethality of fentanyl is unique and does pose a significant problem in our society. i don’t think ragebutt is giving that enough credit.
Heroin can be lethal the first time you try it. People were dying of opioids because of heroin long before fentanyl was on the streets and people were dying from oxycontin too.
Does fentanyl kill more? Yes, because again I am not disagreeing that it is far more powerful, that there are scumbags who mislabel supply or purposely adulterate drugs to make them seem more potent, etc
I’d just argue that your point of view is a war on drugs bullshit take that only started to give a shit about the addiction crisis once vice and youtube dummies starting making fentanyl a buzzword. It’s overly myopic and ignores the systemic factors that drive people to use.
So you regulate supply. Then what? Fentanyl is already regulated. It still doesn’t address the fact that 95% of the people on the streets in Kensington are seen as utter trash and society is waiting for them to die. It still doesn’t address that someone on their way to that place has no real support if they don’t come from a rich family (and honestly even then it’s not great?)
I do absolutely agree with you that safe access to regulated drugs is absolutely necessary. If addicts could get pharmaceutical grade heroin, fentanyl, cocaine, etc it would ensure safe reliable dosing in a monitored site that could support overdose if it occurs (remember that overdoses are not inherently fatal), it would essentially completely disarm the cartels (unless they fully shift to avocados or whatever), and it would allow you to regularly connect with addicts to encourage treatment and connect with resources like housing and welfare
But whenever these programs get trialed (just the clean needle stuff, no way the dea lets the drug part happen) the conservatives go nuts and the libs let out their inner NIMBY conservative so they get their funding cut and often shut down, even when data supports their existence
I will note that I did not personally attack you, I did say that your point of view is bullshit and based on fearmongering, but you’re the one that has taken this to personal attacks and name calling.
Yes I’m aware. fentanyl (it’s in my post) is derived from petrochemicals but still acts on the opioid system. The whole “being derived from petrochemicals” thing is what makes it “fully synthetic” which is just a creepy spooky nonsense weasel word that anti science nutjobs use to promote shit like anti vaccination. The fact that it is synthetically derived doesn’t make it any more or less dangerous, the fact that it’s significantly more potent does, but even with that to an experienced user it’s just a far more intense heroin, which is similar to how heroin is a far more intense morphine
Tbf I could’ve probably used the noun instead of “it’s” but I feel like the context is pretty clear if you read past the first sentence
We like to talk about drugs like there’s this clear delineation between something that is and isn’t medicine… but it really comes down to the situation and the dosage.
For much of history and in most places, liquor was the most effective painkiller available. More recently, fentanyl started as a synthetic, medical grade painkiller. It’s still widely used across hospitals for that. Before synthetics, it was opium (otherwise known as heroin), derived from poppy plants.
Not just painkiller, a bit of alcohol will kill tons of nasties, so it was often the case that lightly fermented drinks are safer and healthier than many water sources.
Very true. The difference between medicine and poison is often just dosage.
Heroin is made from opium. It’s not the same.
It’s derived from petrochemicals but it works on the same receptors. And 50 years ago people were screeching about heroin, a completely unnatural man made synthesized drug far more potent than opium (which is roughly 10% morphine, heroin being around 2-3x stronger than pure morphine), in much the same way they are screeching about fentanyl now. “It’s a scourge, it kills people, it’s destructive” etc
All of those things can be true and fentanyl is absolutely far more dangerous given its potency (though giving someone with 0 opioid tolerance heroin isn’t necessarily safe either).
The real enemy is addiction, and the real real enemy there is a lack of resources and empathy. A lack of supports, a lack of housing, a lack of meaningful jobs and supportive welfare, a lack of healthcare, a lack of a society that doesn’t focus on punitive incarceration efforts over rehabilitative treatment and equitable respect
But keep focusing on the fentanyl boogeyman. Or tranq. That’s the problem. Just get that off the streets and it’ll all go away
A lot of people got sold what they thought were prescription pain pills, but were actually fentanyl. Some died the first time they took. No amount of empathy is solving that, you need the drug and dealers off the streets.
With Fentanyl it’s different. It can be lethal the first time you try it. We might say addiction is one problem but lack of regulation and predictability in dosage is also a problem. Much of what’s dangerous about illicit drugs is not knowing quite what you are getting.
Heroin addiction can also be immediate, so I’d say the mere availability of the drug is a problem. It’s not just that sometimes an addiction develops and then there’s a problem.
I agree with most of what you said, just not this one part. It’s an antiquated point of view from rosier times with less dangerous drugs on the street.
addiction is never, ever immediate. dependency is only one part of addiction.
ragebutt is pretty on point here. you are correct though that the lethality of fentanyl is unique and does pose a significant problem in our society. i don’t think ragebutt is giving that enough credit.
Heroin can be lethal the first time you try it. People were dying of opioids because of heroin long before fentanyl was on the streets and people were dying from oxycontin too.
Does fentanyl kill more? Yes, because again I am not disagreeing that it is far more powerful, that there are scumbags who mislabel supply or purposely adulterate drugs to make them seem more potent, etc
I’d just argue that your point of view is a war on drugs bullshit take that only started to give a shit about the addiction crisis once vice and youtube dummies starting making fentanyl a buzzword. It’s overly myopic and ignores the systemic factors that drive people to use.
So you regulate supply. Then what? Fentanyl is already regulated. It still doesn’t address the fact that 95% of the people on the streets in Kensington are seen as utter trash and society is waiting for them to die. It still doesn’t address that someone on their way to that place has no real support if they don’t come from a rich family (and honestly even then it’s not great?)
I do absolutely agree with you that safe access to regulated drugs is absolutely necessary. If addicts could get pharmaceutical grade heroin, fentanyl, cocaine, etc it would ensure safe reliable dosing in a monitored site that could support overdose if it occurs (remember that overdoses are not inherently fatal), it would essentially completely disarm the cartels (unless they fully shift to avocados or whatever), and it would allow you to regularly connect with addicts to encourage treatment and connect with resources like housing and welfare
But whenever these programs get trialed (just the clean needle stuff, no way the dea lets the drug part happen) the conservatives go nuts and the libs let out their inner NIMBY conservative so they get their funding cut and often shut down, even when data supports their existence
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Okay, keep vilifying substances instead of systemic issues because someone wasn’t kind enough about it
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I will note that I did not personally attack you, I did say that your point of view is bullshit and based on fearmongering, but you’re the one that has taken this to personal attacks and name calling.
Attack ideas, not people
No. Heroin is made from opium. From poppies. This has geo-political importance. Fentanyl is fully synthetic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin?wprov=sfla1
Yes I’m aware. fentanyl (it’s in my post) is derived from petrochemicals but still acts on the opioid system. The whole “being derived from petrochemicals” thing is what makes it “fully synthetic” which is just a creepy spooky nonsense weasel word that anti science nutjobs use to promote shit like anti vaccination. The fact that it is synthetically derived doesn’t make it any more or less dangerous, the fact that it’s significantly more potent does, but even with that to an experienced user it’s just a far more intense heroin, which is similar to how heroin is a far more intense morphine
Tbf I could’ve probably used the noun instead of “it’s” but I feel like the context is pretty clear if you read past the first sentence