Considering how the 1st Reconstruction got cancelled, and the Nazi elements that persist in Germany, I think that there is a great deal of evidence that mercy doesn’t work against systemic evils. The whole concept of Nazi, Confederate, and now MAGAT, ideology should go on trial…with death being the sentence if a whole class of participants are found guilty.
Worked for ICE? You die.
It isn’t kind, nor just. But this disease of evil needs to be uprooted, else it will spread into future generations of the nation. The Confederates and Nazis have proven this.
I would 10 times rather have lived in postwar Germany than in post revolution France, China, Russia…
Reconstruction is probably the one time that I know of when they were too lenient. Jefferson Davis of all people basically just walked free, and then on down. We’re still paying the price to this day for the betrayal of everything the union soldiers died for. But IDK how you can look at the history of blood thirst and lack of due process, after the revolution, and say “Yeah let’s do that I sure super want to live in that country.”
Honestly, I do not know how harsh things should be. Part of the problem, is that it isn’t clear how we convince neoconfederates from being what they are. Talk of peace, empathy, and cooperation doesn’t seem to move the needle with MAGA.
My impression, is that either they are only keyed to self-preservation in the face of extreme consequences, or simply lack the humanity to ever become better people if mercy was offered. Either way, it feels like a blunt solution is the only reliable way to remove MAGA from existence. It is my hope that by making it clear to MAGA aligned people what will happen if things go on, would make them reconsider…but if not, then at least I and others would become mentally prepared to force them to rest.
When peace isn’t a option, violence is inevitable. If that has to be the way, I know whom I prefer to be removed from the mortal coil. Hopefully, it won’t come to that. But hope isn’t reliable.
Completely agree. Democracy just can’t function if a third of the people in the country don’t want it, and just want their faction to rule by force, and that’s where we’re at right now.
All I’m saying is that postwar Germany is probably the best I am aware of out of a selection of bad historical precedents for how you recover from that situation into something approximating a stable and safe society. Organized trials with due process for anyone who killed innocent people or otherwise participated in the worst of the horrors, and acceptance of the idea that a lot of people, especially at the bottom of the org chart, just aren’t going to “get it” that anything that they did was wrong.
I think once the tribalism gets engaged firmly in people’s heads, where their faction is the one with God on its side and anyone who’s an enemy deserves to be snuffed out, you can’t really fix them from the outside. They have to either come to it themselves, or not, and in the meantime life has to move on as best it can. The problem with Germany as a precedent is that there was someone from outside to come and impose it…
There is a risk of bad outcomes, true. Unfortunately, I don’t see a good way to remove the cancer of the Confederacy.
As to what is currently happening, I suspect the blood of many innocent people will stain the soil of Florida in the coming years. They never did anything to warrant their suffering.
That is a key difference concerning ICE, Border Patrol, Trump, Thiel, and so many other willing members of the Trump Regime: they wanted people to die, just because. Offering mercy to someone who thought it was alright to send children to die in the Florida heat, they probably won’t reflect on the morality of their actions.
The reason most civilized nations have removed the death penalty is that even in modern criminal cases, at least one in five convicted persons are innocent.
If you lock someone up, there is the possibility of releasing them and providing them with an income to say sorry for taking most of their life away. If you execute them, nothing can be done to make amends - it is a final and irreversible step.
I cannot even imagine the kind of kangaroo justice that would be encouraged by attempting to go after anyone involved in this current state of affairs. If we get things wrong 20% of the time with a stable society, how well are we going to fare on establishing guilt when we’re trying to quickly process tens of thousands of stormtrooper cosplayers? Yes, they’re probably horrible, horrible people, but I think extreme repercussions should be reserved for ringleaders and people in a decision making capacity. Even then, we should stop short of killing them.
I am fairly sure the people on the ground acting out will have the rest of their lives to process the trauma they’ve inflicted on themselves, their communities and their victims - and many of them won’t be able to come to grips with it in this lifetime.
The Confederates in America got off easy, and look what their descendants have become: MAGATs. What that tells me, is that the confederates were only sorry for losing, not that they processed trauma and developed empathy.
It would be good if your path works. Unfortunately, I cannot find the faith to believe in your position.
The concentration camps of CECOT and Alligator Auschwitz shouldn’t exist. Noem Kristi making light of 65 million latino lives as alligator feed, it doesn’t inspire confidence in the humanity of whom I once considered to be American. I will hope you are right, but I cannot wager on it.
Concentration camps have existed in the US and Canada before. First for indigenous populations and then for the Japanese after Peal Harbor.
And you’re right, it’s a sore test of faith to allow people to continue to live in bigotry - and especially difficult when they are doing everything in their power to hurt you. Unfortunately short of “killing them all”, which is a path that will lead to exactly the same outcomes over time, it has to be done.
There is a reason a path of faith is considered a harder path.
They’ll just make you the Nazi\ICE\whatever. Similarly with “antisemitism”.
So better don’t.
It might feel counterintuitive, but softness and humanism work. While all this “we need to be cruel” shit doesn’t. It just allows your enemy to change coats when you’re not looking and then bring you to the guillotine.
Considering how the 1st Reconstruction got cancelled, and the Nazi elements that persist in Germany, I think that there is a great deal of evidence that mercy doesn’t work against systemic evils. The whole concept of Nazi, Confederate, and now MAGAT, ideology should go on trial…with death being the sentence if a whole class of participants are found guilty.
Worked for ICE? You die.
It isn’t kind, nor just. But this disease of evil needs to be uprooted, else it will spread into future generations of the nation. The Confederates and Nazis have proven this.
I would 10 times rather have lived in postwar Germany than in post revolution France, China, Russia…
Reconstruction is probably the one time that I know of when they were too lenient. Jefferson Davis of all people basically just walked free, and then on down. We’re still paying the price to this day for the betrayal of everything the union soldiers died for. But IDK how you can look at the history of blood thirst and lack of due process, after the revolution, and say “Yeah let’s do that I sure super want to live in that country.”
Honestly, I do not know how harsh things should be. Part of the problem, is that it isn’t clear how we convince neoconfederates from being what they are. Talk of peace, empathy, and cooperation doesn’t seem to move the needle with MAGA.
My impression, is that either they are only keyed to self-preservation in the face of extreme consequences, or simply lack the humanity to ever become better people if mercy was offered. Either way, it feels like a blunt solution is the only reliable way to remove MAGA from existence. It is my hope that by making it clear to MAGA aligned people what will happen if things go on, would make them reconsider…but if not, then at least I and others would become mentally prepared to force them to rest.
When peace isn’t a option, violence is inevitable. If that has to be the way, I know whom I prefer to be removed from the mortal coil. Hopefully, it won’t come to that. But hope isn’t reliable.
This whole situation is rotten. 😞
Completely agree. Democracy just can’t function if a third of the people in the country don’t want it, and just want their faction to rule by force, and that’s where we’re at right now.
All I’m saying is that postwar Germany is probably the best I am aware of out of a selection of bad historical precedents for how you recover from that situation into something approximating a stable and safe society. Organized trials with due process for anyone who killed innocent people or otherwise participated in the worst of the horrors, and acceptance of the idea that a lot of people, especially at the bottom of the org chart, just aren’t going to “get it” that anything that they did was wrong.
I think once the tribalism gets engaged firmly in people’s heads, where their faction is the one with God on its side and anyone who’s an enemy deserves to be snuffed out, you can’t really fix them from the outside. They have to either come to it themselves, or not, and in the meantime life has to move on as best it can. The problem with Germany as a precedent is that there was someone from outside to come and impose it…
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCHeFjADTTs
There’s also a whole lot of evidence that hangings don’t work.
You are advocating for an authoritarian tyranny and a reign of terror worse than what is currently happening.
There is a risk of bad outcomes, true. Unfortunately, I don’t see a good way to remove the cancer of the Confederacy.
As to what is currently happening, I suspect the blood of many innocent people will stain the soil of Florida in the coming years. They never did anything to warrant their suffering.
That is a key difference concerning ICE, Border Patrol, Trump, Thiel, and so many other willing members of the Trump Regime: they wanted people to die, just because. Offering mercy to someone who thought it was alright to send children to die in the Florida heat, they probably won’t reflect on the morality of their actions.
At what point, does mercy become naivety?
I was given less mercy than these bastards! If it were up to me, I would be firing mustard gas cannisters at them.
It’s not a warcrime if they are terrorists.
The reason most civilized nations have removed the death penalty is that even in modern criminal cases, at least one in five convicted persons are innocent.
If you lock someone up, there is the possibility of releasing them and providing them with an income to say sorry for taking most of their life away. If you execute them, nothing can be done to make amends - it is a final and irreversible step.
I cannot even imagine the kind of kangaroo justice that would be encouraged by attempting to go after anyone involved in this current state of affairs. If we get things wrong 20% of the time with a stable society, how well are we going to fare on establishing guilt when we’re trying to quickly process tens of thousands of stormtrooper cosplayers? Yes, they’re probably horrible, horrible people, but I think extreme repercussions should be reserved for ringleaders and people in a decision making capacity. Even then, we should stop short of killing them.
I am fairly sure the people on the ground acting out will have the rest of their lives to process the trauma they’ve inflicted on themselves, their communities and their victims - and many of them won’t be able to come to grips with it in this lifetime.
The Confederates in America got off easy, and look what their descendants have become: MAGATs. What that tells me, is that the confederates were only sorry for losing, not that they processed trauma and developed empathy.
It would be good if your path works. Unfortunately, I cannot find the faith to believe in your position.
The concentration camps of CECOT and Alligator Auschwitz shouldn’t exist. Noem Kristi making light of 65 million latino lives as alligator feed, it doesn’t inspire confidence in the humanity of whom I once considered to be American. I will hope you are right, but I cannot wager on it.
Concentration camps have existed in the US and Canada before. First for indigenous populations and then for the Japanese after Peal Harbor.
And you’re right, it’s a sore test of faith to allow people to continue to live in bigotry - and especially difficult when they are doing everything in their power to hurt you. Unfortunately short of “killing them all”, which is a path that will lead to exactly the same outcomes over time, it has to be done.
There is a reason a path of faith is considered a harder path.
They’ll just make you the Nazi\ICE\whatever. Similarly with “antisemitism”.
So better don’t.
It might feel counterintuitive, but softness and humanism work. While all this “we need to be cruel” shit doesn’t. It just allows your enemy to change coats when you’re not looking and then bring you to the guillotine.