How we vote in the Primary is how we can get money out of politics.
God, I just want to crush the neoliberals, to hear the lamentations of their political commentators, to see their empty suits driven before me, on ONE fucking primary before I die.
This is a hilarious and I relate, but it doesn’t actually help us. Or anyone. One sandwich to a homeless man? Is more actual benefit to the world than saying this.
Unless you go and start a conversation with a Red-hatter this way. Get them riled up and cheering for how you HATE the same people they do, and use it to glean some motivation deeper than “owning the libs.”
Then you can maybe, just maybe talk to a voter about how society has left them behind too. From experience, they have the same concerns, fears, pressures as what drives people to the Left, its just been twisted by gaslighting propaganda about who we are. Before I could bring this red-hatter to a pride parade, they need a LOT of therapy. But for many there is realistic hope.
You still haven’t commented on Mamdani, and that disappoints me.
This is a hilarious and I relate, but it doesn’t actually help us. Or anyone.
I… wasn’t trying to help anyone by saying it? Other than venting for my own benefit?
Unless you go and start a conversation with a Red-hatter this way. Get them riled up and cheering for how you HATE the same people they do, and use it to glean some motivation deeper than “owning the libs.”
Bruh. I lived in a deeply conservative area for most of my life. My social circles were deeply conservative, and I feigned being ‘apolitical’ to avoid having to go nuclear at a time when my living position was precarious.
Thinking that there’s a commonality of dislike there is falling for the extremely thin mask they put on whenever some liberal gives them pushback. It’s not real. They immediately drop the mask when around people they think are similar to them.
The people they hate aren’t ‘the elite’ as you or I would recognize them. The people they hate aren’t ‘politicians’ as you or I would recognize them. They have deeper motivations than ‘owning the libs’, but not more wholesome ones, I assure you. Being a metaphorical bump-on-a-log who isn’t suspected of liberalism lets you hear some gruesome truths about the principles of conservatives.
You still haven’t commented on Mamdani, and that disappoints me.
… fucking what? I’ve commented numerous times on Mamdani??
Still digging, not seeing your comments on Mamdani.
But the way you run defense for Biden and Cuomo without actually committing to them? Doesn’t leave me hopeful that I can call you a “comrade” in any sense.
Critiquing the Soviet Union? With Nuance? Actually Based. I wanna see what happens when you read William Hinton’s (admitted racist) firsthand account of the Chinese Cultural Revolution in his book “FanShen” and his secondhand account of the reversal in “ShenFan”.
I use the first as evidence that we can do better when we talk to each other - that “ground game” you maligned in this thread. I use the second to describe the Strong-State’s problem of accountability for leadership’s incompetence, and the incentive for workers to outright Lie as a survival measure.
There is hope for you yet. But I would love to hear you explain what soaking in a rightwing geography has pushed you to.
And yes, I still want to hear your thoughts on Zohran Mamdani. They’re buried. Either I need a new interface that makes this search easier, or a restatement.
Still digging, not seeing your comments on Mamdani.
Simply searching ‘Mamdani’ by user ‘PugJesus’ comes up with:
In any case, a major congratulations and good luck to Zohran Mamdani, the democratic socialist who won the Dem Party primaries for NYC mayor!
I wouldn’t count on it. Party elites are notoriously resistant to any kind of positive change. The only way we can change the Dem Party is by forcing it to change - by ensuring progressive candidates like Mr. Mamdani continue to win going forward.
Hopefully, the strained democracy of the US will hold up long enough for that to matter.
Damn, my hopes for Mamdani just got even higher. Low turnout under ordinary circumstances give high-enthusiasm candidates an advantage, by that enthusiastic base’s relative size to the ordinarily voting electorate.
Fucking fascist ghouls. Good on Mamdani for not putting up with it, though it’s horrifying that this is already a fucking concern.
(someone else) If we fill them with Zohran Mamdanis, on the other hand…
Me:
But the way you run defense for Biden and Cuomo without actually committing to them? Doesn’t leave me hopeful that I can call you a “comrade” in any sense.
I ‘ran defense’ for Biden when he was the only fucking candidate with a realistic shot at beating the fascist. Sorry for not wanting more Palestinians to die, for not wanting Ukrainians to be murdered by genocidal Russian imperialists, for not wanting literal millions abroad to starve and waste from sickness for lack of US aid, for not wanting US LGBT folk and marginalized groups to be murdered en masse, and, selfishly, for not wanting to have my health insurance as a Filthy Poor™ with a chronic disease stripped so I die vomiting blood on my bathroom floor?
I’ve literally never ran defense for Cuomo, in any way shape or form.
There is hope for you yet. But I would love to hear you explain what soaking in a rightwing geography has pushed you to.
Cynicism. The idea that these people are ready to be our comrades with just the right phrasing is, unfortunately, insanity. The core issue is not misinformation, or the wrong policies - otherwise you would be right, there is hope. The core issue has been the development and cultivation of sickened values over the past 70 years that are directly contrary to functional politics.
Values are much harder to change than political allegiances, and political allegiances are already notoriously hard to change. Whatever the solution is to our problem, it doesn’t include turning rural fascists into comrades any more than the Dem attempts to turn rural fascists into conservatives has worked.
fucking what? I’ve commented numerous times on Mamdani??
My bad, I’ll dig thru your profile for that.
Bruh. I lived in a deeply conservative area for most of my life. My social circles were deeply conservative, and I feigned being ‘apolitical’ to avoid having to go nuclear at a time when my living position was precarious.
I feel that, and I can relate. I’m less precarious today.
Thinking that there’s a commonality of dislike there is falling for the extremely thin mask they put on whenever some liberal gives them pushback. It’s not real. They immediately drop the mask when around people they think are similar to them.
Oh, that? That’s not what I’m talking about for a motive. But in retrospect, I can see how I read that way.
We have to distinguish between a spectrum of rightwingers - the ones who know the dogwhistles are such, and those who are so uneducated they bought the frame of “small government” as good in its own right because “everyone agrees”. Like it’s a religion they were raised in.
“Hating the elites” (whatever that means) isn’t a coherent political idea as a result. Having 3 jobs and being pissed that you’re still broke? That’s a coherent political thought they don’t even have the vocabulary to express.
Is the “elite-hate” just antisemitism pretending to look vaguely leftish? Potentially. Or has this dudebro been so starved of literacy that he takes the dogwhistle unironically, but won’t connect “billionaire” with that on his own? This is a spectrum.
I’d rather find and talk to the drive of “why am I still poor when I work this hard?”
If an upscale clothing store manager steps to me talking about “these kids don’t know how to work,” I’m acknowledging how exhausted he looks. His is not a life of dignity, and I will say this to him. The education system has failed him through his trainees, and he is being asked to pick up the slack. Where are bank tellers going to come from when kids graduate unable to count money? What kind of AI are data scientists going to build when they don’t understand what each statistics distribution describes?
We are failing to invest in our country, and he will either see how this affects him personally, or he will walk away seething. If he brings up DEI or trans anything, or immigrant crime? I have a one-liner to address it and move back to the real conversation - you work too hard bro, and its because our systems are failing.
“Hating the elites” (whatever that means) isn’t a coherent political idea as a result. Having 3 jobs and being pissed that you’re still broke? That’s a coherent political thought they don’t even have the vocabulary to express.
Alright, but many of them take a perverse pride in poverty, don’t work three jobs, and quite explicitly love the elite. Like, the level of idolization of rich folk who share their dogwhistles that goes on is insane.
If you’ve never seen a Trump flag with Rambo’s body on it, count yourself lucky. And it’s not a new trend either. Wealth means people are ‘smart’ and ‘hardworking’, unless they start talking all liberal-like. The ‘elites’ they hate are not the people who drain their meagre wealth away from them, they’re the people that make them feel insecure - doctors, lawyers, career politicians who don’t suck them off.
Is the “elite-hate” just antisemitism pretending to look vaguely leftish? Potentially.
Not even, though. Elite hate isn’t a smokescreen for something more nefarious - step back, take in the full view of their position, and it is literally just that - hate for elites. The issue is that the ‘elites’ they despise are people who make them feel ‘lesser’ intellectually.
And the worst part is, many of these people are not stupid, inherently. But they’ve been raised to see incuriosity about their preconceptions as a virtue. They will simultaneously express what a BADASS REBEL they are by meekly submitting to conservative social norms and what a GOOD UPSTANDING LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN they are for meekly submitting to conservative norms. And if you point it out, they see no contradiction. Which, in practice if not principle, to be fair, I suppose there isn’t.
I flatter myself a bit in saying that I have a bit of an edge in arguments with most people. I used to like to argue, and got very good at it - now I argue out of exhausted obligation and the knowledge that letting points go uncontested in a social circle lets them multiply, which results in very unpleasant social circles. Let me tell you, the insanity of giving gentle pushback and maneuvering a conservative into a position where they state something in reverse of their position (such as from ‘politicians need more power’ to ‘politicians need less power’) while still maintaining their original position is…
1984 had it fucking right, man. The level of people to engage in doublethink is overwhelming.
If an upscale clothing store manager steps to me talking about “these kids don’t know how to work,” I’m acknowledging how exhausted he looks.
I suppose I can’t speak to that. My experience is overwhelmingly with poor, rural, religious conservative America.
God, I just want to crush the neoliberals, to hear the lamentations of their political commentators, to see their empty suits driven before me, on ONE fucking primary before I die.
This is a hilarious and I relate, but it doesn’t actually help us. Or anyone. One sandwich to a homeless man? Is more actual benefit to the world than saying this.
Unless you go and start a conversation with a Red-hatter this way. Get them riled up and cheering for how you HATE the same people they do, and use it to glean some motivation deeper than “owning the libs.”
Then you can maybe, just maybe talk to a voter about how society has left them behind too. From experience, they have the same concerns, fears, pressures as what drives people to the Left, its just been twisted by gaslighting propaganda about who we are. Before I could bring this red-hatter to a pride parade, they need a LOT of therapy. But for many there is realistic hope.
You still haven’t commented on Mamdani, and that disappoints me.
I… wasn’t trying to help anyone by saying it? Other than venting for my own benefit?
Bruh. I lived in a deeply conservative area for most of my life. My social circles were deeply conservative, and I feigned being ‘apolitical’ to avoid having to go nuclear at a time when my living position was precarious.
Thinking that there’s a commonality of dislike there is falling for the extremely thin mask they put on whenever some liberal gives them pushback. It’s not real. They immediately drop the mask when around people they think are similar to them.
The people they hate aren’t ‘the elite’ as you or I would recognize them. The people they hate aren’t ‘politicians’ as you or I would recognize them. They have deeper motivations than ‘owning the libs’, but not more wholesome ones, I assure you. Being a metaphorical bump-on-a-log who isn’t suspected of liberalism lets you hear some gruesome truths about the principles of conservatives.
… fucking what? I’ve commented numerous times on Mamdani??
Still digging, not seeing your comments on Mamdani.
But the way you run defense for Biden and Cuomo without actually committing to them? Doesn’t leave me hopeful that I can call you a “comrade” in any sense.
Critiquing the Soviet Union? With Nuance? Actually Based. I wanna see what happens when you read William Hinton’s (admitted racist) firsthand account of the Chinese Cultural Revolution in his book “FanShen” and his secondhand account of the reversal in “ShenFan”.
I use the first as evidence that we can do better when we talk to each other - that “ground game” you maligned in this thread. I use the second to describe the Strong-State’s problem of accountability for leadership’s incompetence, and the incentive for workers to outright Lie as a survival measure.
There is hope for you yet. But I would love to hear you explain what soaking in a rightwing geography has pushed you to.
And yes, I still want to hear your thoughts on Zohran Mamdani. They’re buried. Either I need a new interface that makes this search easier, or a restatement.
Simply searching ‘Mamdani’ by user ‘PugJesus’ comes up with:
(someone else) If we fill them with Zohran Mamdanis, on the other hand…
Me:
I ‘ran defense’ for Biden when he was the only fucking candidate with a realistic shot at beating the fascist. Sorry for not wanting more Palestinians to die, for not wanting Ukrainians to be murdered by genocidal Russian imperialists, for not wanting literal millions abroad to starve and waste from sickness for lack of US aid, for not wanting US LGBT folk and marginalized groups to be murdered en masse, and, selfishly, for not wanting to have my health insurance as a Filthy Poor™ with a chronic disease stripped so I die vomiting blood on my bathroom floor?
I’ve literally never ran defense for Cuomo, in any way shape or form.
Cynicism. The idea that these people are ready to be our comrades with just the right phrasing is, unfortunately, insanity. The core issue is not misinformation, or the wrong policies - otherwise you would be right, there is hope. The core issue has been the development and cultivation of sickened values over the past 70 years that are directly contrary to functional politics.
Values are much harder to change than political allegiances, and political allegiances are already notoriously hard to change. Whatever the solution is to our problem, it doesn’t include turning rural fascists into comrades any more than the Dem attempts to turn rural fascists into conservatives has worked.
My bad, I’ll dig thru your profile for that.
I feel that, and I can relate. I’m less precarious today.
Oh, that? That’s not what I’m talking about for a motive. But in retrospect, I can see how I read that way.
We have to distinguish between a spectrum of rightwingers - the ones who know the dogwhistles are such, and those who are so uneducated they bought the frame of “small government” as good in its own right because “everyone agrees”. Like it’s a religion they were raised in.
“Hating the elites” (whatever that means) isn’t a coherent political idea as a result. Having 3 jobs and being pissed that you’re still broke? That’s a coherent political thought they don’t even have the vocabulary to express.
Is the “elite-hate” just antisemitism pretending to look vaguely leftish? Potentially. Or has this dudebro been so starved of literacy that he takes the dogwhistle unironically, but won’t connect “billionaire” with that on his own? This is a spectrum.
I’d rather find and talk to the drive of “why am I still poor when I work this hard?”
If an upscale clothing store manager steps to me talking about “these kids don’t know how to work,” I’m acknowledging how exhausted he looks. His is not a life of dignity, and I will say this to him. The education system has failed him through his trainees, and he is being asked to pick up the slack. Where are bank tellers going to come from when kids graduate unable to count money? What kind of AI are data scientists going to build when they don’t understand what each statistics distribution describes?
We are failing to invest in our country, and he will either see how this affects him personally, or he will walk away seething. If he brings up DEI or trans anything, or immigrant crime? I have a one-liner to address it and move back to the real conversation - you work too hard bro, and its because our systems are failing.
Alright, but many of them take a perverse pride in poverty, don’t work three jobs, and quite explicitly love the elite. Like, the level of idolization of rich folk who share their dogwhistles that goes on is insane.
If you’ve never seen a Trump flag with Rambo’s body on it, count yourself lucky. And it’s not a new trend either. Wealth means people are ‘smart’ and ‘hardworking’, unless they start talking all liberal-like. The ‘elites’ they hate are not the people who drain their meagre wealth away from them, they’re the people that make them feel insecure - doctors, lawyers, career politicians who don’t suck them off.
Not even, though. Elite hate isn’t a smokescreen for something more nefarious - step back, take in the full view of their position, and it is literally just that - hate for elites. The issue is that the ‘elites’ they despise are people who make them feel ‘lesser’ intellectually.
And the worst part is, many of these people are not stupid, inherently. But they’ve been raised to see incuriosity about their preconceptions as a virtue. They will simultaneously express what a BADASS REBEL they are by meekly submitting to conservative social norms and what a GOOD UPSTANDING LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN they are for meekly submitting to conservative norms. And if you point it out, they see no contradiction. Which, in practice if not principle, to be fair, I suppose there isn’t.
I flatter myself a bit in saying that I have a bit of an edge in arguments with most people. I used to like to argue, and got very good at it - now I argue out of exhausted obligation and the knowledge that letting points go uncontested in a social circle lets them multiply, which results in very unpleasant social circles. Let me tell you, the insanity of giving gentle pushback and maneuvering a conservative into a position where they state something in reverse of their position (such as from ‘politicians need more power’ to ‘politicians need less power’) while still maintaining their original position is…
1984 had it fucking right, man. The level of people to engage in doublethink is overwhelming.
I suppose I can’t speak to that. My experience is overwhelmingly with poor, rural, religious conservative America.