Note, I’m neither American, nor heavily in that scene. I’m merely signal boosting what I feel is important information countering lib propaganda.
I’m remembering back to the story just a couple of days ago and I’m thinking about all the commenters who immediately accepted the story of the ‘peacekeeper’ guy - and the official line from the police - that Arturo was raising his weapon and heading towards the crowd, so the ‘peacekeeper’ shot “in defence of the crowd”. Many commenters repeated the line he had been, “likely about to do a mass murder - it’s very sad that a bystander died, but they just prevented a shooting spree”. Anyone saying ‘wtf why is the actual killer not arrested’ and suggesting that we only had one side of the story (the killer’s, who the cops were suspiciously immediately siding with) and that there is no proof beyond biased witness claims yet - was being downvoted.
Remember this shit next time you take the word of the police at face value when very few facts are available.
Glad I took the advice of my brown activist friends and didn’t support 50501. They’re a sketch organization from the start.
Why is the name of the victim everywhere but the killer gets anonymity?
Id guess 50501 contracted with off duty cops.
There’s not much that’s more fascist than cops killing people and then prosecuting the surviving victims. Totally normal in USA.
Zero surprise that normies eat it up. We’re indoctrinated into copaganda our while lives.
cops didn’t fire the shots, volunteers did
Not police, just peace police. ACAB.
Firing peaceful bullets
I understand the need to not give the jackboots an excuse, but WTF is this HOA nonsense at a protest?
They’re doing it everywhere. So they can get pictures of everyone’s face for their Palantir gestapo database
Yeah, given the moment in the US, wearing a mask is just the prudent thing to do. The government’s own agents are doing it.
I dont actually think thats the reason. I think its a, misguided, attempt to be able to say “look, its a peaceful protest!”
That’s certainly the messaging that organizations like Palantir would like you to believe
Video of the incident that shows the “peacekeepers” and cops made up their story.
strategy of tension ass shit
Yeah maybe accepting libs as allies is a mistake.
Yeah maybe accepting libs as allies is a mistake.
Who coulda thunk it?
Welcome to what i have seen called the ‘years of lead paint’.
A single blurry still doesn’t pose a convincing argument that he was or wasn’t pointing the weapon towards the crowds.
I’ve not seen enough to conclude either way. So many contradicting things.
If you were wanting to assist with security, when someone obviously doing security addresses you then you’d try and comply, and explain your intent. But did the security actually address him? Or did he just run away from a gun pointed at him? Or did he have his gun pointed in the direction of the crowd while moving towards the crowd and ignoring security? Much of this doesn’t make sense.
A single blurry still doesn’t pose a convincing argument that he was or wasn’t pointing the weapon towards the crowds.
We don’t go around making plausible reasons and then asking the victim to prove them wrong. Maybe the killers are lying to cover their ass?
Facts on the ground is: Arturo didn’t shoot anyone, had a right to carry, a bystander was killed by the “good guys” and Arturo was shot himself. Nothing in all of this proves that Arturo was a danger to anyone.
“Innocent until proven guilty” mfs when the accused is a leftist
The victim blaming with assumed narratives no less, is astounding.
What, you expect me to have evidence?
Just because he didn’t shoot anyone, doesn’t mean his alleged actions wouldn’t cause the same reaction or worse from any other reasonable person.
Again, things aren’t lining up with the two sides/stories.
Ye which is why I’m inclined to believe the non-killer’s story rather than the ones with the most incentive to lie
Both have a very high incentive to lie.
Unless more evidence appears, I’m more inclined to believe the person who didn’t shoot anyone, even when they had plenty of opportunity to do so (in self defense no less) and have a history of protecting others.
Yep this really just seems like a tragedy from someone being overzealous. In the end only hurting allies. There’s no good outcome from this. But arguably the worst I think is to demonize an ally in an attempt to deflect blame. By shooting “preemptively” they’re where there blame lays unfortunately.
I don’t necessarily think that there should be imprisonment or jail in this for anyone. It was all completely unintentional. And doesn’t serve any public good. But I think unfortunately a lot of people are going to want someone to crucify or demonize.
And I’m not telling you not to. I’m just saying I’m unconvinced, and without more factual information I can’t make a decision either way.
Security was across the street and started shooting before he ever acknowledged them. They were far enough that it’s conceivable he didn’t hear them at all. He didn’t run until they fired. This is all in the link they provided. It’s a video, not a still.
If you want to know what actually happened, just listen to the cops and then believe the opposite.
I like the spirit, but IMO we need more “on the ground” details to come to an actual conclusion. Cops suck but there are lots of ways to come up with “the opposite story”.
I’m working under “innocent until proven guilty” logic, but as of this posting I absolutely cannot make any positive conclusion about what happened other than the one second video clip posted in the comments.
That clip is already enough to contradict the security dudes’ statement.
Thanks for the link. I hadn’t found it elsewhere.
You don’t have to prove you didn’t do something. The state has to prove that you did do it. We should assume he is innocent in the absence of evidence.
The burden of proof is on the ones accusing and having people detained.
I’ve kept quiet about this online so far, but my local 50501/no kings organizers are dangerously uninformed about organizing protests and haven’t taken any of the experienced local organizer’s advice about security at these events. They’re literally primarily organized on a “liberal women’s” Facebook group. At least in my area, experienced community organizers have been staying well clear of their mess. Let them gather all the white liberals from the suburbs to go kettle themselves on a pedestrian bridge and yell at cars passing them by. They’ll learn why the experienced community defenders don’t want anything to do with them after it’s too late, but it’s not like any of us are surprised by right wingers coopting and declawing a protest movement.
That’s the signal I keep hearing as well
Yeah send Venmo money to this random QR code! Clowns.
Edit: reports say he was seen move away from the crowd, hid behind a low wall where he removed his rifle from his backpack, and “assumed a firing position” and moved back towards the crowd. No amount of Open Carry allows you to raise that rifle into a ready to shoot position without repercussions.
That smells like a “he’s coming right for us” bullshit report.
So how do you explain away the whole showing up with your rifle hidden in a backpack, and then hiding to take it out. Open carry all you want, why the fuck would you do that in the middle of a tense protest
The clip shows he’s not in a ready to shoot position
What clip, nothing in this post is a clip, nothing in the link is a clip its all images.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/47012172/19515897
Literally top comment
Video entirely misses all the context of the moments leading up to the shots being fired. SOLID evidence
Yeah it’s some evidence vs hearsay and speculation…
Yeah send Venmo money to this random QR code!
Yeah actually, who does this actually get Venmo’ed to? The Mastodon post didn’t really clarify that IMO.
Edit: so I haven’t tried this myself, but according to Salt Lake County Corrections, you can donate online, but I’m not 100% sure we have enough information to do so. Also I imagine you’d have to give the State your personal info. Link is below for people who trust the cops more than the QR code. (Personally, my trust for the cops is negative so I trust the random QR code more.)
Link to the reports? Any actual evidence or is it statement by the police?
Nooooooo. It’s a leftist DO NOT BRING FACTS AND LOGIC just support them blindly and “amplify the message” from somewhere you don’t live or know jus because it aligns with your narrative.
Kinda crazy tbh. At least it’s not Twitter I guess.
You clearly have not interacted with anarchists before
This explains the convulated reporting I suppose
wait, so somebody shot him and he’s being charged with murder?
This is a normal thing in fascist USA. The cops murder people and then prosecute the surviving victims for it.
Right. Those bullet thieves are usually guilty though.
Yes, because his actions made someone fearful for their lives, or the lives of bystanders. That’s all you need in most states for it to be self defense on the part of the peacekeeper. The actions of this supposed anarchist created the conditions that got someone killed, so he was charged with their deaths.
Why is that strange? Do you not live in a place with laws?
How does being shot make you the murderer and what law is that following
So you don’t live in a place with laws? Must be nice.
what the fuck are you saying
The person you’re talking to isn’t really doing a good job of anything really, but the law they are referencing is felony murder. If you’re committing a felony and someone dies as a result of said felony, whether you directly caused it or not, you can be charged with murder for that death.
I don’t know much about its use, but it sounds like an enhancement charge and enhancement charges are bullshit, so it’s probably mostly abused by cops to fuck minorities.
No im saying laws are tools for the manufacture of consent, usually at the cost of truth, justice, freedom.
This is what laws are for, america is just a little more explicit about it than most places.
DAMN. Yeah that story slipped past me. Thanks for the post.
At the least, it’s reasonable to expect someone who claims to be an “armed peacekeeper” to check their background before shooting. I don’t know if that firearms sin is worth criminal charges or not, but it’s bad practice.
Unpopular opinion from someone who hasn’t daily-carried a fully-automatic rifle since leaving the job that required it: if you have a gun, expect to be shot (at). I’m sorry about people being injured and a person’s name being sullied in the process, but I stand by my comment. Untrained randos don’t need to stomp around porting ARs. That’s it; unleash the downvotes.
if you have a gun, expect to be shot (at)
Yeah so the Black Panthers deserved to be shot at because they open-carried to demonstrate their power? Bad take. Needs more information.
Expect =/= deserve
The black panthers open carried in part to expose the hypocrisy of a system that was already indiscriminantly violent towards black people
Yeah so the Black Panthers deserved to be shot at because they open-carried to demonstrate their power?
Yep.
Bad take.
Only if guns are your culture. For the rest of us, there is no safety in a war zone, cosplay or not.
Only if guns are your culture.
Yes guns literally are the culture in that part of the country. That’s my point. No it shouldn’t be that way, but it is. So right now, it’s absolutely not socially or legally abnormal in that part of the country to be open-carrying guns in public. And it doesn’t mean that the area is a warzone.
Yeah so the Black Panthers deserved to be shot at because they open-carried to demonstrate their power?
Yep.
Well I’m glad to know you won’t stand with people who defend themselves against their oppressors. Not sure why you’re in this anarchist community if you’re not even willing to support people who stand against their own oppression but whatever 💩💩💩
Surprisingly, I agree with you. I think jackbooting around with an AR, lefty or not, is generally stupid.
I actually agree with you - I believe that you only pick up a gun when you have a pretty good idea what (or who) you’ll be shooting at very soon.
But then again I did grow up in a fascist state - so that might have something to do with it.
