I would say the US has an executive with aspirations to implement aspects of a fascist state. As long as millions of people are protesting in the streets, the courts are ruling against the executive on points of law and people are standing their ground it is still a long road for the executive to get where they want to go. If the country really was full fascist you would be totally fucked and being shipped with your family to a concentration camp for disloyalty to great leader right now.
Unlike some other countries where law enforcement and prisons might be state run on principle, the US has a history of privatizing such functions. They had the union busting Pinkerton thugs, for profit prisons and bounty hunters. A society that didn’t cry out when the Pinkertons were busting the heads of working people or kids were being railroaded into for profit prison slavery shouldn’t be surprised when thugs are clearing the streets of immigrants. That is just America sadly. That nastiness has always been there.
For Texas at least, under penal code 9.31(a)(1-3) it’s presumed to be reasonable self defense to use force (it specifically does not mention what kind of force, but it is assumed that deadly force is included, I think) against a person who “was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.”
Are people in denial? It just seems like a commonly understood thing. I’ve talked to straight CNN consuming boomers and even they see it for what it is.
For the record I’m in Canada so maybe it’s just hard to see from the inside.
If they aren’t in the streets they are in denial
Apt
Is it legal in the US to shoot people who are trying to kidnap you?
I mean, anyone can go around claiming to be law enforcement or ICE or whatever, but with no badge or ID, how are people supposed to know that this isn’t a gang trying to trafic them?
In vast majority of states there is a stand-your-ground law in place, which means you’re explicitly allowed to use deadly force if you reasonably believe that you’re defending yourself from a violent crime, and in minority there is a duty to retreat while outside of your home or workplace, which means that you still are allowed to use deadly force, but you have to try to retreat first, and only use force if you are reasonably sure that you can’t run away.
Kidnapping by a group of people in plain clothes in an unmarked van is explicitly stated as an example of a case where use of deadly force is permitted by law.I’m pretty sure self defence doesn’t apply against law enforcement, even if you don’t know they are law enforcement.
There have been cases where firing upon law enforcement who failed to adequately identify as such has counted as self defence
It may not, but imo you do what you have to do to protect yourself against aggravated kidnapping, and then hope you/your lawyer can articulate how/why you did what you did later in court.
I think that would count as self defence.
but would the court?
According to law, it’s a matter of law in most of the states, and matter of jury instructions in a limited number of states. In other words, it is explicitly a law.
you’re almost there
America supported the Nazis during World War II. It was all just a weaken Russia. And it’s never really just one thing. You know, it’s multiple things. The control structure feeds into itself many different ways. It’s almost as if we live in and like a spider’s web. Our sole existence on this planet is to support the control structure and that control structure is worse than fascism. Capitalism in crisis creates the populist movements, especially the “good old days types” To crawl out of their crevices and beat their chest, and basically be guided like a horse by the ruling class in order for us to tear ourselves apart in order for law and order to set in and the new standards to begin… I mean we are one of the most subservient and cucked societies that’s ever existed in human history. This will all become more apparent as the climate changes, and we all become climate refugees.I think liberals are becoming more radical and yet they don’t realize that the majority of the real left wing in America has already viewed America as a fascist regime for a long time. Also, some of these liberal movements I think will be co-opted and kind of turned into fascist action. I mean liberals are honestly the number one reason why we have no progress in this country. They occupy the space that should be filled with people that understand the evils of capitalism. But we remember Nancy Pelosi talking about a free market economy, whatever the fuck that means. I mean that bitch is too busy counting her money and getting her hair done. To be more specific, America is an imperialist empire, and fascists are the useful idiots of empire. Yankees live in a vacuum. The libturds are always late to the party. I literally could of had kids. I was on the path and I chose not to because I knew too much. And so that’s why I can say things so “negatively” and freely. I see the world as it is, not as I want it to be. My ear has been to the ground for a long time. I’ve read a lot, listen to a lot. I’ve seen a lot. There is no war but the class war i can guarantee that. Capitalism is a system of the lowest common denominator. It is reflexive based upon emotion and not needs. We won’t solve our problems using this current economic system. Artificial intelligence is scary because it’s stupid, not because it’s actually capable of being accurate or helpful. And we literally feed into it. Without us, it does nothing. It needs data sets. It needs certain things. One of those things will be water. Just basic public utilities is gonna be shit and way out of reach for most people. There will be more homelessness and they’ll just throw them in prison and make them work for free. They’ll trick you in to taking out credit that you can’t pay because they want to put you in jail. All these things have happened in history. It’s just a lazy man’s solution to a problem, especially when they just view you as cattle. The people at the top are by far the most cruel and unprincipled disgusting human beings that have ever existed in society. We live in an inversion. A world where evolution is an exponential decay function.
I read you thing, bro, it did not fall on deaf ears. Bit chaotic and rambling. Type the tune of the imperial march if youre not a robot.
Cracks me the fuck up the rest of the world thinks this now.
This has been the case since Bush passed Citizens United and it was even happening before that. RIP Rosenbergs.
I thought Citizens United was an Obama thing. Are you sure you don’t mean the Patriot Act?
It happened during the Obama administration but it was in response to shit under Bush from people being critical of him/his admin. Obama did not support Citizens United.
I thought it was a Supreme Court thing? What did Obama do?
Not every bad law is fascism.
I would say only in a vacuum.
It’s called “disappearing someone” and it was something that was supposedly done by dictators and tyrants.
Like today’s USA.
There’s gotta be
criminalsnon-ICE who exploit this. Like it must be so easy now for ransomers to kidnap somebody.Did you not see the security company guy who dressed as a cop and murdered a state senator, her husband, and shot another state senator?
But see, it was the other team, so it’s okay.
Thanks. Google was serving me nothing but slop
as if by design…
Thanks. Since moving from Reddit to Lemmy, I’ve become way more aware of what I’m clicking on. I’m pretty sure the amp project links are just for mobile phones n stuff, but it’s good to be aware
What may have been the largest organized protests in American history were just a few days back, the president has record-breakingly low approval, even his own party’s talking heads are turning against him. If you’re not going to be satisfied by anything short of armed uprising then at least be brave enough to say as much, but pretending that Americans just don’t see anything wrong and aren’t doing anything is an act of wilful and blatant ignorance.
You know what Hitler did when he had low approval? He made disapproving illegal.
Just wait for it.
I wouldn’t rest on your laurels just yet. You’ll know when you’ve begun to turn the tide because the beast will lash out. The restraint we are seeing right now just means they’ve got a whole lot more in the tank.
You dont have to look further than last October to see this same type of hubris play out. Kamala had momentum and there was 100% a point where if the vote happend then she would have won. For what ever reason they backed off on the “weird” stuff and started rolling out the neocons. The DNC is going to fuck you and you wont even see it coming.
You’re only proving that you don’t actually have any idea what’s going on here, acting like we’re resting on our laurels because there was a big protest. Nobody here is thinking “Yeah we made ourselves heard, job’s done!” Nobody here says the fight is won, but you’re out here acting like nothing is being done at all.
No. Im pushing like I’ve been pushing for the last 8 years. Grow up.
I mean America is a fascist regime. And you know who support fascism? Fascists. So I guess most fascists are kinda OK with what’s happening.
That’s not denial, that’s full endorsement.
Must be nice living in such a black and white world.
I wonder what chain of thought led you to this conclusion, which is very strange to me. But at the same time, I’m not willing to start some kind of futile quarell over this so… well, have it your way and have a good day.
This argument will just give the fascist leverage to call you a fascist. They are pros at projection and sadly you dont stand a chance.
The issue is fascists are going to lie regardless. There is nothing we can say, no way we can act that will prevent that. It is pointless to try.
Not asking that we try to confront the fascist populous. Asking we confront the fascist government.
I fail to see how this responds to my comment.
The op was saying americans are fascist so it makes sense the government is fascist. To claim the general populace is fascist will only get you in a shouting match of who the most fascist is. A distraction from what really matters, addressing the fascist regime occupying the white house.
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Apparently not because they keep doing it and are effective in their propaganda when they have no right to be.
Fun fact: you know who gave them that power? Bill Motherfucking Clinton. And he fucking did it for money.
How long will people
The Gestapo could be hauling them away in cuffs and putting them away in camps and some will just go “why is this happening to me? there must be some mistake”
Anyone who is still on the fence is either only tuned into propaganda or is incapable of reasoning.
Or still thinks that the leopard won’t eat their face, because it hasn’t so far.
Yeah, for many the leopard has to actually be eating their face directly at the moment for it to be a problem.
There has to be some serious level of being downtrodden that’s required to like empathy for everyone else in the world that’s not them.
That’s 'Murica in a nutshell
There are still people here who still make the excuse that Harris is just as bad as Trump, you guys are fucked as a country
You always like to claim people say that, but no one ever says that. They said they wouldnt vote for anyone in any party who supports genocide. You twist it around to be the words you prefer. I call that lying, but to each their own.
That guy is saying it: https://lemmy.world/post/31562244/17770374
(Or actually, they are saying Harris is worse.)
I have heard the same stance often enough to definitely be able to say, “no one ever says that” is not correct. There are more than enough idiots who do say that.
That guy is a republican.
Statistically, there are more than enough people who voted for Biden and then for Trump 2.
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Meanwhile their vote or lack thereof directly empowered someone who actively encourages it, they just don’t want to take responsibility for that part.
It would not have been a problem if you had ranked choice voting.
If Musk sets up his own party that would split the conservative vote so the Republicans would finally be open to ranked choice. Would probably require ⅔ majority in Congress.
But Dems might be too hungry for temporary power to support such a much needed fix.
Ranked choice is nice, but why not just have an actually democratic system with coalitions? No need for a single winner.
Ranked choice allows for coalitions like in AU.
Maybe you mean Multi Member Proportional voting like NZ and DE. That is the best system but complicated. US cannot even deal with converting to metric so MMP would result in exploding heads.
Yes, that was what I was going for. The really big issue with FPTP systems, especially hard ones like the US is that they create two-party systems which are incredibly undemocratic.
Third parties just can’t exist, because they split the vote for your side, so the only choice you have if you are unhappy with your party is to not vote or vote for the other party, and all that does is benefit that other party you’d be even more unhappy with.
You know, kinda like one might think Harris isn’t left enough, so they end up helping Trump to power.
But what’s even worse is that the elected president only ever represents close to 50% of the population, and he’s close to all-mighty and can do whatever he wants without anyone really checking him.
In better systems coalitions between major parties form, and they represent a much bigger slice of the population, and they keep each other in check, having to compromise to not risk blowing up the coalition. And better systems also have a stronger and more living constitution. One that gets updated more frequently, and that has to be updated more frequently because it includes more details. Since constitutional changes then require a larger supermajority (e.g. 2/3 or 3/4), the governing coalition needs to take the needs of the opposition into account as well, because they need their votes when a constitutional change is required.
For example, the US has had 27 constitutional amendments (10 of which happened within a year of the constitution being created, they were basically 0-day-patches) over the last 236 years.
Austria has had about twice as many within the last 70 years.
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Well you have a deranged view of the world so I don’t really care what you think is a lie, when you can’t even be truthful about your own bullshit
Potato potato.
Now? You think this happens at the drop of a hat? The entire system is built that way since decades.
Right? The fuck these people think Vietnam was?
An international hug, with Agent Orange. That’s a tasty breakfast beverage, right?
I think the line between a liberal democracy and fascism is much blurrier than most people think. I suspect the transition from one to the other, going in either direction, is entirely dependent on how much internal forces threaten the ruling capitalist class.
Right now, I think the US is on the decline but hasn’t yet experienced a crisis which really threatens the power of the capitalist class. Fascists seeking power therefore need to manufacture crises in order to accumulate power. That’s where I think the US is at right now.
However, I’m not sure how well it will really work. Democratic state leaders are effectively demonstrating that the existing law enforcement structures are perfectly capable of violently cracking down on dissent. So if you’re a wealthy capitalist, why would you push your bought and paid for judges and politicians to make Trump president for life? It seems like a needlessly risky move in my opinion.
That said, we can only say that the rich will operate rationally to protect their own interests on average. Individually, they can be wildly erratic like Elon Musk has proven to be. As such, the more wealth is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, the less predictable the outcomes are.
True, fascism is the ultimate weapon that capitalists use in reaction to labor movements and class consciousness gaining strength. In fact, I’d argue that given modern advances in communication technology, which allow people to communicate and organize easier than ever, a fascist swing was almost inevitable.
It’s a shame that western world leaders don’t like dialectic materialism. We might have identified the problem before it seized power.
