I don’t have the study, but it’s so ingrained it’s literally a meme. The idea of a “white knight” is based off the idea that men defend women without actually having idea whats going on. The “how can she slap” meme came from a show where a woman slapped a guy when she wasnt allowed to, and it shocked him so he slapped her back. Instantly every dude in the crowd got up and started beating his ass, even though she literally assaulted him outside of the rules of the show. There’s also the trope of guys doing dumb stuff “because love” or to show off to women.
I’m didn’t read enough to follow his point nor yours outside of that, but there is definitely a point to be made that men do tend to defend women from strangers, just not from friends.
Memes are not studies. If you can’t at least find one to support the point I’d hazard it was never true. You can’t base an argument around a single video, or even a collection of them. Data is generally needed.
White knighting is pretty exclusively used in a derogatory manner, which would indicate that most people think it’s not the default and that it’s cringe.
Men doing stupid things for women is not the fault of women. It also does not translate to defending women.
If men were so ready to defend women, why was the me too movement needed? Why is there still sexism in the workplace, or at all? Do I believe that some men like to appear masculine? Yes. Do I believe that some men equate masculinity with violence? Yes. Do I think that necessarily equates to protecting women, or doing things that benefit women? Absolutely not.
You say you didn’t read enough to follow, and that you don’t have any studies, but that there is definitely a point to be made. Even if there is, your comment does not really support that.
This feels like how Trump got elected. Commenting about how memes proved a point and just going off of vibes, it must be right.
Im not sure if a mod deleted it or what, but my app isnt showing our conversation past here so this is where ill have to respond. I see where you are coming from and i think that my approach would not work for everyone, but I do generally tend to have an extremely black and white view of the world. As far as i can tell i do generally tend to treat everyone the same, but for very odd reasons. My paranoia leads me to fear getting attacked by literally everyone, and i have the habitual urge to treat everyone with respect. The only thing I do thats questionable is racial and sexual humor, but that is clearly in jest, which still doesnt really excuse it. It does help i suppose that I am a racial and sexual minority
Nah, i didnt even look for a study, thats why i mentioned that. I figured the examples i gave where enough to get the point across, the point being what I stated at the end. As far as the equating masculinity with violence, imma be honest, I don’t really want to think about deeper topics right now. I wasnt trying to take anyones side, just comment an observation that I have made.
And yeah, white knighting is seen as cringe and definitely not the default, but its common enough that theres a well known term for it. The cringe part though for me is injecting yourself into a situation without knowing the facts, not the defending of a woman. Although I’m a pretty hardcore feminist, so I don’t tend to look at too many things under the lens of a man or woman, I generally just pretend as though gender/sex don’t exist when i interact with people to get rid of any bias.
If I’m not trying to get in your pants, your sex shouldn’t matter.
And I don’t know why I would treat women differently then men, so I’m not sure why I need to take gender into account either.
It’s different if were discussing things that are gender/sex exclusive, like periods or something.(I can’t offer gender exclusive issues bc i cant think of any that arent just gender roles, which i despise) But for casual conversation why does gender matter?
To be clear, I am not trying to convert you here, I just figure you can give me a better explanation if you understand where im coming from.
I’m not sure if you realize that it was me that you were replying to elsewhere in this thread, but I think you actually answered own question. In a vacuum, it shouldn’t matter, but in reality, it does. When “randomly” picking who coordinates social events, or work happy hour, is it generally a woman? When you’re talking about introducing a new idea in the office and you check with a colleague, is it always the same sex? When someone at work asks for a moment of your time, who are you finding immediate time for? I’m not saying that you have a gender bias, I am just saying that society has a gender bias, and often people don’t realize their subconscious gender bias. If you’re not paying attention, you can definitely fall into societal assumptions about gender without even realizing it. Heck, you might even find that you are white knighting, and helping women more than men. Maybe you never fall into those issues, but most feminist theory thinks it’s important to be at least conscious of this sort of thing.
I kept it mostly work related, because interpersonal relationships are all different and I don’t really know anything about you or the kind of interpersonal relationship you would have, but it generally applies to those as well. Obviously, the work examples are also quite specific for a specific kind of job, but hopefully it gives enough of a picture that you could extrapolate how unconscious bias could affect all kinds of jobs and not just insert sitcom office job here.
I don’t have the study, but it’s so ingrained it’s literally a meme. The idea of a “white knight” is based off the idea that men defend women without actually having idea whats going on. The “how can she slap” meme came from a show where a woman slapped a guy when she wasnt allowed to, and it shocked him so he slapped her back. Instantly every dude in the crowd got up and started beating his ass, even though she literally assaulted him outside of the rules of the show. There’s also the trope of guys doing dumb stuff “because love” or to show off to women.
I’m didn’t read enough to follow his point nor yours outside of that, but there is definitely a point to be made that men do tend to defend women from strangers, just not from friends.
Memes are not studies. If you can’t at least find one to support the point I’d hazard it was never true. You can’t base an argument around a single video, or even a collection of them. Data is generally needed.
White knighting is pretty exclusively used in a derogatory manner, which would indicate that most people think it’s not the default and that it’s cringe.
Men doing stupid things for women is not the fault of women. It also does not translate to defending women.
If men were so ready to defend women, why was the me too movement needed? Why is there still sexism in the workplace, or at all? Do I believe that some men like to appear masculine? Yes. Do I believe that some men equate masculinity with violence? Yes. Do I think that necessarily equates to protecting women, or doing things that benefit women? Absolutely not.
You say you didn’t read enough to follow, and that you don’t have any studies, but that there is definitely a point to be made. Even if there is, your comment does not really support that.
This feels like how Trump got elected. Commenting about how memes proved a point and just going off of vibes, it must be right.
Im not sure if a mod deleted it or what, but my app isnt showing our conversation past here so this is where ill have to respond. I see where you are coming from and i think that my approach would not work for everyone, but I do generally tend to have an extremely black and white view of the world. As far as i can tell i do generally tend to treat everyone the same, but for very odd reasons. My paranoia leads me to fear getting attacked by literally everyone, and i have the habitual urge to treat everyone with respect. The only thing I do thats questionable is racial and sexual humor, but that is clearly in jest, which still doesnt really excuse it. It does help i suppose that I am a racial and sexual minority
Just fyi, I was talking about this comment: https://reddthat.com/comment/18251444
Otherwise, yea, I think it’s important we all do what we can. Best of luck out there.
Yeah, i got that. I got my app working again, not sure what the deal was with that.
Kinda joking, kinda not, but the solution to sexism seems to be autism.
Nah, i didnt even look for a study, thats why i mentioned that. I figured the examples i gave where enough to get the point across, the point being what I stated at the end. As far as the equating masculinity with violence, imma be honest, I don’t really want to think about deeper topics right now. I wasnt trying to take anyones side, just comment an observation that I have made.
And yeah, white knighting is seen as cringe and definitely not the default, but its common enough that theres a well known term for it. The cringe part though for me is injecting yourself into a situation without knowing the facts, not the defending of a woman. Although I’m a pretty hardcore feminist, so I don’t tend to look at too many things under the lens of a man or woman, I generally just pretend as though gender/sex don’t exist when i interact with people to get rid of any bias.
Gender blindness is generally not considered a feminist approach to interpersonal relationships.
If I’m not trying to get in your pants, your sex shouldn’t matter.
And I don’t know why I would treat women differently then men, so I’m not sure why I need to take gender into account either.
It’s different if were discussing things that are gender/sex exclusive, like periods or something.(I can’t offer gender exclusive issues bc i cant think of any that arent just gender roles, which i despise) But for casual conversation why does gender matter?
To be clear, I am not trying to convert you here, I just figure you can give me a better explanation if you understand where im coming from.
I’m not sure if you realize that it was me that you were replying to elsewhere in this thread, but I think you actually answered own question. In a vacuum, it shouldn’t matter, but in reality, it does. When “randomly” picking who coordinates social events, or work happy hour, is it generally a woman? When you’re talking about introducing a new idea in the office and you check with a colleague, is it always the same sex? When someone at work asks for a moment of your time, who are you finding immediate time for? I’m not saying that you have a gender bias, I am just saying that society has a gender bias, and often people don’t realize their subconscious gender bias. If you’re not paying attention, you can definitely fall into societal assumptions about gender without even realizing it. Heck, you might even find that you are white knighting, and helping women more than men. Maybe you never fall into those issues, but most feminist theory thinks it’s important to be at least conscious of this sort of thing.
I kept it mostly work related, because interpersonal relationships are all different and I don’t really know anything about you or the kind of interpersonal relationship you would have, but it generally applies to those as well. Obviously, the work examples are also quite specific for a specific kind of job, but hopefully it gives enough of a picture that you could extrapolate how unconscious bias could affect all kinds of jobs and not just insert sitcom office job here.