No, it doesn’t ‘depend’. I’m not saying everything they say is a lie, I’m saying you can’t trust it to be true. Those are different things.

Can you learn things from an Israeli report? Sure. But not because you can trust their accuracy, but because it says something about their intentions and state of mind.

Of course not - trustworthiness isnt an UNO reverse card that means everything they say is opposite. It means they cant be trusted to report on facts accurately.

I’m glad you support Palestinian liberation and oppose their genocide.

There’s still the underling belief that an ethno-religious colonial state can address your fears of persecution of anyone outside of your identity group, and that’s what people are pointing to as incompatible with anarchism. It doesn’t make you a ‘bad person’ to hold that position, but it is a morally abhorrent belief on its own.

I’m sorry you got piled on, and I hope it didn’t cause you too much distress. If i’m being frank - an anarchist instance probably isn’t a good fit for you.

There is a difference between general xenophobia and being (quite justifiably) wary of cultures that are a threat to you or others due to identity

Not really, no. It doesn’t matter if you think your fear of another group or culture is justified, it’s still a fear and suspicion of an outside group on the basis of identity. Using that fear as a justification to exclude that group from the right of free movement and association is what makes it the basis of genocidal rhetoric.

To use a clear example: early American settlers feared the Natives had a fundamentally incompatible culture to their European one, and accused them of being barbaric. They used that fear as a justification to evict them from their homes, refuse their freedom of movement and inclusion, and to erase their culture and lineage from the continent. They would have come bearing receipts of instances of native americans scalping their relatives or stealing their property - but that wouldn’t make that fear a legitimate justification for any of their genocidal actions that followed.

When you live in the core of empire, of course you are going to be afraid of outside groups, because empire has given those groups nothing but reasons to hate it. That doesn’t justify apartheid or oppressive governance, and it sure as fuck doesn’t justify genocide

As long as it isn’t in defense of zionism, you’re fine.

It really shouldn’t be this difficult.

You can express yourself however you like, but you might not be welcomed back to do it again if it’s in defense of neo-colonial apartheid.

This isnt a libertarian instance, it’s an anarchists one.

that sounds like authoritarianism

On the contrary, it sounds more like getting your shit kicked in for showing up to a mosh pit in a nazi officer’s uniform.

The literal Nazis released reports on smoking being bad for you.

The Nazis could have been reporting on the fucking weather - doesn’t make them a trustworthy source for anything, let alone matters relating specifically to the defense of their existence.

Emma Goldman (and just about any anarchist) defended the right to express dissent against oppression, not the freedom to express a defense of it. She openly advocated for theft and violence - she was a true revolutionary. She would have been the first person to tell you that there is no room in anarchism for the defense of any state, let alone a neo-colonial apartheid one.

The soul of Anarchy is free expression

The soul of anarchism is freedom from oppression. You cannot have freedom from oppression while tolerating speech defending it.

The problem is that if you remove people who protest an issue you will remove the people you disagree with, but you will also remove people who agree with you, but won’t excuse poor arguments and discussion

Talking in hypotheticals is a challenge. All i’d say is - zionism is illogical and oppressive on its face. If you’re defending (or challenging) something along zionist grounds, it’s almost by definition not lending itself to better argumentation or discussion.

he is doing the exact same thing that the Israeli government and corporate media have been doing when they call anyone who criticizes the Israeli government an antisemite.

I agree.

supermajorities of folks in all political parties support folks labeled as antisemitic, because we all understand that the antisemitic label is complete bullshit now

Antisemitism is still a thing - it just happens to be a thing that’s perpetrated by those claiming Israel as ‘the Jewish state’ (and attributing their actions to those done by ‘the jewish people’) and by people who go along with that conflation. Supermajorities don’t support antisemitism, they oppose Israeli apartheid. That just makes it all the easier for actual antisemites to cover under the same political rock and pretend that they’re in the majority, while simultaneously leaning into the Jewish identity of the perpetrators of that genocide.

The perspective being expressed by this poll is whether you can have dissenting opinions to posts about a settler-colonial apartheid state.

Kindly, that’s not at all what is being discussed. This is an anarchist instance - anarchism is openly and proudly hostile toward colonialism in all forms, which is why it’s being discussed here. It’s not a straw poll about if anyone is allowed to have a dissenting opinion, it’s about if that type of perspective is allowed to be expressed on this instance.

There is a difference between supporting a settler-colonial apartheid state and demanding a higher level of quality for posts

You can demand a higher quality for posts all you like, just not on grounds relating to zionist positions or justifications. I’ll leave it to the mod’s discretion on what counts, but I think you’re already treading on shaky ground.

By removing opinions which question the status quo you will remove Zionists, but you’ll also remove those who ground the community in logic and truth

Zionism isn’t valid and isn’t based on logic or truth - nothing of value will be lost.

If there were no borders, I would be concerned that religious conservatives (of any faith) would move to my area and have tons of conservative kids, and then it would be harder for me to be gay without being killed and to marry

This might be uncomfortable for you to hear, but the substance of this sentence is a xenophobic. You being concerned as a minority that some other group might move next door and have children is exactly the type of justification used for the state of Israel and their genocide and apartheid, and the reason why Zionism ought be bannable on this instance.

This isn’t really about constructing lines of defense for specific acts committed or not committed by Israel or Palestine. The perspective being expressed by this poll is about whether there is any justification for supporting a settler-colonial apartheid state from an anarchist or marxist perspective, and the answer is resoundingly no.

There are plenty of people on the internet claiming to be the ‘devil’s advocate’ - especially on reddit, especially on .world. You can have those places to test lines of defense for the state of Israel - but on an anarchist sub, it’s reasonable to ban them because they are incompatible with anarchism. Generalist forums like reddit are cesspools for nazis for exactly this reason, and it’s why I am in full support of the motion at hand - even for people ‘just playing devil’s advocate’.

Me? Mate, you’re the one who was shadowboxing nobody.

GTFO with this antagonistic bullshit.

Anarchists can have ideological disagreements with MLs without deepthroating western interpretations of eastern European events

This meme is giving me PugJesus vibes - hope that guy is doing ok.

He’s doing what a lot of actual antisemitic nationalists do, which is intentionally conflating/ hiding behind the already established conflation between Israel and the Jewish people.

I don’t think we should be surprised that neonazis are taking the opportunity to call out the genocide in Gaza - we should also not be fooled into thinking they’re being earnest.

If I ever won the lottery I would dedicate my life to fucking with the business practices of cloud-connected appliance companies, data brokers, and DRM protected media companies.

Death to Samsung.

I saw it here

The Nigerian government also confirmed the US attack on Friday. The Foreign Ministry stated that such operations were part of ongoing security cooperation with the US, which had led to “precision strikes on terrorist targets” in the northwest of the country

It should be mentioned that the Nigerian government says they requested the strike