Still cute though 🐕🐶

Perhaps it’s because I am on PieFed.social and you are on PieFed.zip… somehow?

If you ever have the misfortune of having to communicate with the Sealion Cowbee, you will understand. Arguing with people who ignore 99.9% of what you said, just to hyper focus on just asking a question (which you already answered) just isn’t my idea of a good time. Also, why hold knowledge hostage by saying “DM me and I’ll hook you up with an answer bro, I swear!” I don’t need to walk into any dark alleyways to find my knowledge, thank you very much - I’d much rather stay in the daylight where everyone can criticize an obviously (even/especially not to me) incorrect statement.

Yeah, I think Meanwhile on Grad is a bit much, but other communities don’t want to repeat information so keep pointing people to post new instances of admin abuse there rather than repeat the same tired old stories over and over again everywhere else across the Threadiverse. Examples include [email protected], which helpfully keeps communities accountable from mods who run amok, and [email protected] that closed down after Trump won the USA election. But on the other hand, even though everyone on the Threadiverse already knows about the abuses and deceptive practices of the infamous Lemmy.ml devs, hence we don’t want to keep hearing about them, nonetheless new people still occasionally come along who need a reference, so Meanwhile on Grad is helpful for that reason.

If you have evidence of people using alts to manipulate votes, please post it in [email protected]. Using alts is common though - and prior to PieFed software there were extremely good reasons to do so, given the limitations of Lemmy - so long as you are careful to not ever vote on the same content multiple times.

spicy peppers are gross in a fruit cake.

This is 100% it exactly: you can do whatever you please, be maga okay sure, be pro-genocide even, whatever so long as you don’t push me to do it too - but don’t shit in my drink and call it chocolate. Transparency is key. I don’t mind lemmy.ml tankies doing their thing on the internet, so long as they clearly label what it is then that’s fine. It’s the lack of transparency that makes it disinformation.

I almost left the Threadiverse entirely, for being far too toxic.

Thankfully, PieFed exists, with the capability to block whole entire instances (Lemmy’s is not a true block - users can still comment, vote on your content, DM you, which triggers notifications, etc. - that “community morning” is horribly misnamed as an “instance block” that barely “blocks” anything).

That will never happen, and if you want to find out why, listen to the complaints that people make over on r/RedditAlternatives.

Chief among them are (1) tankie devs, (2) too political, and (3) too toxic. To see what they mean, try Google search (what a typical mainstream normie would use) for the word “Lemmy”, which nowadays takes you to Lemmy.world but for the longest time went to Lemmy ml. Which by default to a user without a login shows Local posts rather than Global.

Now imagine what that looks like just before an election in a Western nation… and you can entirely understand why members of Western capitalist, democratic nations, do not feel welcomed in a space that constantly jokes about murdering or at least cheering on the mass deaths of people that fit exactly that description. No I don’t (just) mean billionaires - I mean anyone who participates in usual society.

We who use blocklists forget what the experience looks like to an outside, traditional mainstream user.

Lemmy will continue to shrink, and the user base mostly seems either outright pleased or at least resigned to that fact. If you are not, then good luck being a part of the change that you want to see - which you already are, just by having chosen a PieFed (rather than Lemmy) instance!:-)

Edit: to add one more point, it is the Paradox of Intolerance, or another name for it is the Nazi bar effect. Imagine asking your Jewish friends to join you in the corner of a known Nazi bar where you hand out. Yes you can walk past all the actual, literal Nazis and enjoy your little corner apart from them… but do not be so surprised if your friends refuse to join you there?

Is cm0002 the avowed voat user? I tried to search for cases where that account used the word “voat”, but mainly it was in the context of a Nazi bar whereupon tankie instances seem akin to a leftist Voat 2.0.

It was exploding-heads.com that was defederated from, by almost every instance across the entire Threadiverse.

Lemmy.ml on the other hand is the opposite in that it is defederated from by almost no (major) instances.

It - we shouldn’t think of it as “she” - was basically liquid metal on top of a metal endoskeleton, controlled by a (fictional ofc) true AGI. So inside the movie, all of that liquid is there to do with as it pleased.

Then the film makers surely did whatever was most cost-effective to engender that illusory effect:-).

Omg I loled so hard at this! 🤣

Thank you. I wonder how long ago that endorsement was made though? Lemmy.ml was one of the oldest instances - I think Hexbear technically predates them but in the sense of using a different software than Lemmy, and similarly for dbzer0 (who iirc used a forum software that was not federated). If the sole options are Reddit vs. Lemmy, then you take what you can get.

Study the history a bit: those truly were different times. Like for one thing, Lemmy.world did not exist, so virtually all communities were on Lemmy.ml. Since then Lemmy.ml has been relegated to almost obscurity, but back then was a very different story… Comics, Memes, News, everything was on lemmy.ml, before it was as widely known about their moderation practices - in large part bc the admins kept that as an echo chamber, silencing any dissent with full instance-wide perma-bans, so it is entirely plausible that many people simply did not know what it was all about.

Also, there was the whole distraction issue where it was “claimed” that the most extremist leftist stuff was relegated over to lemmygrad.ml, which while true, should not be taken at face value when considering just how much extremism remains. But, at the time… I could see someone believing that misinformation, for being plausible in that context.

Fwiw I agree with you that they would have done better to have simply said nothing, but also I agree with dbzer0 in that narrowly within just the reasons they stipulated, Lemmy.ml in its earlier days truly was like that. No I wasn’t here for that, I just found it interesting to poke around to read older posts about the history of things:-).

These are all true statements (and to this day there are communities of expert systems especially that refuse to migrate away from Lemmy.ml - oh well, their loss as the rest of us refuse to be held hostage by their poor choices):

• pirate cove
• develops lemmy frontends
• lemmy development
• expert sysadmins

You might ask dbzer0 if they still endorse Lemmy.ml tankies in today’s environment, or are there any more recent statements that they’ve already put out? Anyway, I agree that this is not a high moment for them - I’m just not sure it’s all that terribly low either, as it would be if they did such today.

Edit: also it’s crucial to note there that an “endorsement” does not mean “you should totally go create an account over there”, but rather “I would like my instance to federate with this instance, as its users serve up worthwhile content that I would like to participate with” - so not quite the same meaning as the word “endorse” would typically imply.

You may be conflating several things. For one, no Lemmy.ml is not defederated from PieFed.social (see its presence in the allow list at https://lemmy.ml/instances). There are some issues with things like community discovery across the Lemmy vs. PieFed divide but the federation itself works just fine.

Two, you are actually banned from MANY communities there (I stopped counting at 6, though at least one has since expired). Unlike Reddit, there is no method for Lemmy to actually notify you that you are banned, you kinda just have to figure it out yourself somehow. And then there’s no mod mail to appeal or even ask questions about it - you exist at the mercy of the mods and admins, with no rights for anyone to notify or explain anything to you, yes somehow even more so here than on Reddit (at least our landlords here are nicer, plus you can spin up your own personal instance if you like, PieFed makes that a lot cheaper and easier). See your bans at https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&userId=17651002, and if you change the settings you can also see e.g. your removed content.

Three, your negative comments tend to only trigger issuance of a ban when they are made specifically in a community located on Lemmy.ml, as they do not check across the entire Threadiverse for content elsewhere. But if your comments were there, then I don’t know why you were not banned - this would be the first story I’ve heard of someone getting away with having done so. Maybe you made them in posts that got removed or mostly ignored by the community and therefore the admins missed you? There are so extremely many stories of people that were not missed in [email protected] if you want to read about it happening to others.

Dang it, now that you gave them the idea, they seem to have already done it, retroactively. I hope you are happy /s (😭).

There are tons of reasons to downvote someone. I rarely do it myself, so I am not the best person to ask why, I just know that people do. Just off the top of my head though: process rather than content, or style over substance (e.g. if a cussword were used and someone did not like to see that, hence downvoting even something that they would otherwise agree with) are two examples.

Even not openly endorsing them would be a start.

Now THIS would be a strong argument. Can you send me a link to read more about this?

instinct

I did not downvote you btw, just asked for details.

Yes the term “free speech” is often misused, but at the end of the day it is either the real explanation or it is not, though for what exactly I am still not certain - failure to defederate from lemmy.ml? Failure to actively speak out against them (which they have I believe) hard enough or long or often enough? They are who they are, and rather than rely on either my or your opinion, someone interested in knowing who they are would best be served by listening to neither of us but instead to them.

Be the change that you would like to see in the world…:-)

I disagree that authoritarianism is anywhere in the same ballpark as democratic socialism, and naively I would far sooner believe that dbzer0 was anti-censorship rather than pro-authoritarian. I have heard that accusation about dbzer0 previously but as far as I can tell it seems based exclusively on the post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52313315, which is if not fully debunked then at least highly contested in the comments, so the furthest from a fully settled issue as it could possibly be.

But am I missing something, do you want to share a link to support your accusation of them? (You did not phrase that as “I heard somewhere that…” but rather stated it as a true fact, as if you believed it based on some kind of evidence?)

Otherwise, the only accusation that I’ve heard of that seems to hold any water is the Nazi bar argument… which would apply to the entire Threadiverse, and perhaps by extension to the entire internet also? i.e. while valid, I am not seeing how helpful that is. e.g. your instance and mine both federates with Lemmy.ml, which makes each of us “tankies” as well by that logic. Unless there is something more specific about dbzer0 specifically being pro-tankie rather than simply not anti-tankie enough?

“Muad’Dibber”, the Lemmygrad admin is a Dessalines alt.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory. If true then I have seen no evidence of it, though I don’t particularly care one way or the other so will just leave it at that. Here too you did not phrase it like “might even be…”, but as an established fact. It is already so exceedingly difficult to separate fact from fiction on the internet, please aim to be more precise so as not to muddy the waters further. I do thank you for your desire to help.

Stay curious.