“Nobody uses water,” one man in a Dodgers cap said in Spanish when Maria Cabrera approached, holding flyers about silicosis, an incurable and suffocating disease that has devastated dozens of workers across the state and killed men who have barely reached middle age.
…
The disease dates back centuries, but researchers say the booming popularity of countertops made of engineered stone, which has much higher concentrations of silica than many kinds of natural stone, has driven a new epidemic of an accelerated form of the suffocating illness. As the dangerous dust builds up and scars the lungs, the disease can leave workers short of breath, weakened and ultimately suffering from lung failure.
“You can get a transplant,” Cabrera told the man in Spanish, “but it won’t last.”
In California, it has begun to debilitate young workers, largely Latino immigrants who cut and polish slabs of engineered stone. Instead of cropping up in people in their 60s or 70s after decades of exposure, it is now afflicting men in their 20s, 30s or 40s, said Dr. Jane Fazio, a pulmonary critical care physician who became alarmed by cases she saw at Olive View-UCLA Medical Center. Some California patients have died in their 30s.
…
deleted by creator
You’re absolutely right, all this old timer “Kids these days are so soft…” B. S. When in reality the young just don’t wanna die or be maimed at 30.
Take care of your bodies, kids, it’s the only one you get. Don’t let corporations run you into the ground and then throw you in the trash. We need to demand better working conditions from our bosses and our elected officials.
“The only one looking out for #1 is you.” - My section chief when I was in the Army.
I’ll never forget it and I pass it on every chance I get. I’ve gone as far as shaming some people into wearing knee braces and the like because “what the fuck are you doing, you’re gonna fuck it up even worse”
I try anyways… doesn’t always work…
Keep up the good work, it might not always work, but the times that it does are priceless.
There are a decent amount of teenagers where I work and I try to pass that idea on to as many as I can. Adults too, of course, but it’s really satisfying to be able to catch people while they’re young and still have loads of time to protect themselves… From a lot of things.
When running a fireworks show, safety is by far the most important part of the job.
In the safety briefing before we start working in the morning, the one before we load shells, AND the one before we fire the show we remind them that the person most responsible for their safety is themselves. If they do not feel safe about something, anything, do not do it and come to me. I will never shame someone for wearing PPE. I will always be inspired from whatever device or tool they come up with to make the job safer or more comfortable.
Everything can wait while we sort out safety issues.
This reminded me of a guy I knew. He was the safety guy for large events such as concerts or conventions, lots of electrical work and heavy loads, hoisting and such. Said this stuff to others, but also tried to put it all on himself, sort of like you, “always come to me.” Dude made sure he was there for every important or possibly dangerous step, sometimes not very busy but then when a big event was coming up, very very busy for a few weeks. Fell asleep at the wheel. Gotta delegate.
It’s not so much of a “I’ll do it.” It’s a “get me and we’ll find a way to do it safe.”
If I have to get more PPE, if we need to change our layout, if we need to cancel parts of the show, we’ll do what we need to to make it safe.
deleted by creator
I just spent some time in an area with lots of cows… I ended up looking out for #2 a lot.
I try to point out to my coworkers that part of what they’re trading for wages is wear and tear on their bodies. Using provided PPE is like getting a raise because you’re giving the company less.
My doctor told me recently I should wear a mask everytime I mow the lawn. I was like fuckkkk. It’s true though.
Just you? Or people in general? And, what does the mask block or protect against?
Everyone.
Lung burden. When you breathe in particles, a few of them never come out. It’s cumulative. I’m a non smoker, way worse for smokers.
My boss has emphysema and asthma, but refuses to wear a mask when doing demolition because “it makes it too hard to breath.” I don’t understand this mentality.
I don’t know an outdoor construction worker that doesn’t have some sort of pulmonary disease. Chronic rhinitis at best, mostly COPD, many with also with sleep apnea. And those that smoke on dusty job sites will all die young.
The answer here is simple- regulations with teeth.
Every saw uses water. Every worker wears a mask. Random inspections.
Inspector sees one person without a mask? $1000 fine. One machine with no water hooked up? $5000 fine. 10 people with no masks and 3 machines with no water hooked up? $25,000 fine. Make it clear that there is no fucking around here.
Job site like described in the article? Shut down until problems fixed.
I’d further add personally liability of all supervisors, managers and executives. You run such an operation and cannot prove without a doubt that you instructed for safety, provided the necessary tools and materials and did regulary inspections yourself? You pay for everyones treatment and damages.
Personal liability (piercing the corporate shield) is a really tough nut to crack. That’d also do some outsized harm- think kids college fund raided for settlement money.
That said, I’d be happy to make it a personal crime to, with knowledge of the law, instruct any worker to use a machine without safety equipment and water hookup, or to work without a mask. THAT should be a personal crime, like criminal charges. And you should have to, when hired for any such supervisory position, sign a one-piece thing that has that law laid out so you can’t claim you didn’t know the law.In my country (Germany) as an architect or civil engineer you can be held liable, in some cases also as an employee, when deliberately or grossly negligently violating technical rules.
At the end of the day no college fund is more important than peoples lifes, but there exist liability insurance specific to certain jobs. It is similiar to doctors malpractice insurance. Expanding the concept to site supervisors seems reasonable to me.
And of course that must not except the company from liability. It should mainly take effect, when the companies liability cannot cover anymore.
Engineering and architecture are different. It’s our job to make sure the things we design bring no harm to people and we have specialized training allowing us to take that responsibility on.
Site supervisors are often tradespeople, and may not even have the authority to direct health and safety measures on their site if corporate sees otherwise. I agree, they have a responsibility to do so, but it must be started from the top with some coercion by strong regulation. Putting liability personally on supervisors just removes it from the company who likely made the decision to forego supplying water because of cost savings.
Site supervisors… may not even have the authority to direct health and safety measures on their site if corporate sees otherwise.
So what? That’d change real quick if site supervisors became personally liable.
Well, either that, or “corporate” would suddenly be unable to find anybody willing to do the job and go out of business. It’s a win either way!
Putting liability personally on supervisors just removes it from the company
It’s not an either-or. Put the supervisor in prison for a year; put the company execs in prison for 10. There’s plenty of criminal liability to go around!
That’s the key- deliberate or grossly negligent. If a supervisor, through deliberate choice or inexcusable gross negligence, instructs an employee to work in an unsafe manner, I have no problem making that a criminal offense that makes both the company and the supervisor liable.
This is well reasoned.
All injuries arising out of employment should fall under workers’ comp., except if the injury is caused intentionally.
Even recklessness, I think, it best suited for workers’ comp. I would make workers’ comp. benefits more robust.
I would support criminal liability for wanton or reckless conduct by coworkers.
Unlike with asbestos, the companies that mine and make the raw countertops have clearly labeled their products and warned of the risks of silicosis.
As a manager of blue collar workers that actually gives a shit about my teams this is the answer unfortunately. Many managers don’t care but will if they’re personally liable.
Set up a monitored tip line where supervisors can tell the govt that management isn’t giving them the proper PPE to protect their workers. That way if management isn’t giving them PPE, supervisors have a place to go turn to instead of being squeezed from both ends. Get an OSHA inspector out on a surprise trip and get upper management fined.
Supervisors need to care about their direct reports first and foremost, over any company demands. One of the best supervisors I’ve ever had gave me therapist recommendations when I mentioned having a tough time with mental health, and she told me she sometimes took personal days for her own mental health. Another supervisor, when I was going through an even more rough period of mental health, told me that his wife had bipolar and they put a lot of time and effort in, together, for her to feel alright.
I felt like I had those guys in my corner, and I knew that if push came to shove, they’d have my back. They may have ultimately been powerless to internal HR policies, but they reaffirmed to me that my health should be my top priority and I needed to put it first.
That’s what it means to have a workplace as a family. The leader truly cares about everyone on the team and has their back.
I think each violation should carry a heftier fine than the last, so each worker without a mask would be a 25% nominal increase.
1 without? $1000 2 without? $1000 + $1250 3 without? $1000 + $1250 + $1562.50 10 without? You’re looking at a $42,566.13 fine
You have to have escalations, otherwise violating the regulations becomes a business expense, not a punishment.
Well, in this case I’d say split the difference and make it each incident escalates where an incident #1 = “we caught you, we told you”, incident #2 = “we told you yesterday to fix your shit / don’t do it again, 2x fine” rinse repeat. Otherwise you run the risk of bankrupting a small business that had all 10 of their workers in violation, and maybe even not making a dent in a large business that only had 1 out of 1000 workers caught in violation
In addition to per-incident escalation, what I could get on board with are scaled fines based on contract / business size. The first incident is still “survivable” for small businesses but will actually have teeth for those larger ones. And then of course if they keep violating, say bye-bye economic viability.
I agree very much. I think on the low end fines should go down to be survivable for a small business, and we don’t need to fine a big company $100k because someone took their mask off.
But fines should increase steeply by number of offenses, and multiply if management is willfully refusing to provide a safe working environment (IE doesn’t want to pay to have a machine hooked up to water/drain, doesn’t want to pay to have filters cleaned, doesn’t want to pay for masks / goggles / other PPE, etc).
gonna need higher fines than that. Its not some rinky dinky small outfits that are handling fancy counter tops like that.
Yeah, it needs to be a percentage of revenue.
The fucked up part of this is how preventable it is. Very few folks will take to wearing a mask though, when that’s all they need.
Here’s the full set of measures recommended:
Workplace safety regulators have recommended a suite of measures including water spraying systems, ventilation and vacuum systems to clear dust, in addition to protective respirators for workers — ones covering the entire face if silica levels in the air are high.
Considering these are likely illegal immigrants working on these countertops, I wouldn’t be shocked if their employers refused to supply masks.
or charged them for the basic safety gear out of their already low wage.
Both of which are very illegal
False, read the article?
Its more than just masks that are needed and the article makes that very clear.
deleted by creator
They weren’t exactly rude and it is irritating when people comment on things in the article incorrectly.
Also it’s not just respirators that are needed.
Plus they are essentially blaming the workers claiming they won’t wear masks.
You get “serious creep vibes” from someone saying “false read the article”? Christ what world do you live in
I get serious spineless vibes from that person
How is that a creep vibe? What does that even mean? Protecting workers is creepy?
They pointed out that it’s shitty to blame the victims of a system that abuses its workers and won’t provide them the proper safety. I better attack that as being a “Dwight Shrute-esque” dick (really???). What the fuck. You’re the fucking jerk.
No, respirator is a type of mask, thats not what I was referring to.
The article mentions multiple times that masks are just one piece of the puzzle, and goes into a fair bit of detail about how its way more than that, that is needed.
Read the article, it’s gone over in detail multiple times.
Right, it’s the ventilation hose built into every piece of cutting equipment ever made that they neglected to use.
Thats another one, but not the hose itself.
Read the article perhaps.
I have had countertops put in two different times. The first time the crew had a water saw and masks. The second time I was horrified to see the guys cutting the stuff raw without even a paper mask on.
I worked for a few spray-foam insulation companies in my early 20’s. I’m just waiting to hear the same thing from spray foam. Half the guys I worked with didn’t wear masks most of the time and were just covered in foam all day breathing in the off gassing of fire retardents and blowing agents and other nasty chemicals. I quit because I saw the writing on the wall and my boss hated me for quitting before training my replacement. I told him it wasn’t worth my health.
The dumbest thing is the mentality between workers sometimes. “Don’t be a pussy” some will say when you ask for masks/goggles/ear plugs/etc but none of them will be there when you eventually get injured or sick. None of them will congratulate you, hand you a tough-guy-trophy and pay your medical bills + pension.
Good call. Hed probably be the type to make fun of you for wearing a mask too, huh?
Nah he was my boss and I was a decent sprayer, and a very very good helper. So to make fun of me wouldn’t have worked well for him. He understood my concerns. My other coworkers were not like that though, like someone in a comment above me said. They’d all crack jokes at me because I took safety very seriously. I would like to see how they are all doing now and I wonder about their health sometimes. I didn’t keep in touch with any of them though and live far away now.
The EPA/OSHA cut hexavalent chromium exposure limits by 100. Aircraft workers have been spraying, painting and airbrushing that shit for fucking ever. It’s uniquely good at its task (anti-corrosion) so there’s no making it go away any time soon.
Polyurethane?
Yes spray polyurethane foam. SPF.
I did construction very briefly (“briefly” because the company owner quit paying me after a while); companies cut corners every possible place they can, because any safety measures cost time or productivity. Even doing things properly costs time and money that they don’t want to spend. Construction is competitive, so they’re bidding as low as possible, and promising unrealistic delivery times, and then turning around and expecting their workers to make those deadlines and costs.
You can’t fix this without stringent oversight, and criminal prosecution for the owners that are refusing to give workers the correct tools, and follow safety protocols.
I absolutely love the enthusiasm for required regulations in this thread but everyone is missing one critical aspect… illegal workers are probably a huge part of those impacted by this. Many of these “companies” who cut counters work through subcontractors and I bet the majority of these are just a guy with an LLC. I would love to see more numbers on the type of worker/businesses being hit with this illness.
Oh dear God I remember being warned about this in a chem lab because we were using some silica.
Dust/particulates are always bad for the lungs. I don’t think there’s any exception. Masks with a fitness test need to be provided and specified as PPE for this kind of work, at the very least. The company is unlikely to do so themselves unless legally pressured to.
Edit from my double comment: employers are required to provide functioning, proper PPE to employees per OSHA, and also train them on properly using it. If masks and water hoses aren’t already considered required, we need to make sure that gets updated. Force the companies to comply or be sued.
I very recently watched a safety module thing about this for work actually as part of the training requirement.
We hear about machines replacing jobs all the time. Why can’t they replace cutting fucking countertops so people don’t die in their fucking 20s?
This isn’t happening in factories. This is happening in situations where someone is remodeling so none of those guys can afford fancy machinery. They usually cut/fit/sand on site.
So much victim blaming in this thread.
Depends on what you’re used to. Some people fight using PPE when they really shouldn’t be fighting it. It’s a difficult nut to crack since too much force from corporate over stupid safety shit fatigues workers to that kind of shit. Finding the right balance isn’t easy.
If you improperly use a knife and cut your finger off, is it the knife’s fault? Improperly using a tool or process can and will cause problems.
And yet if you cut your finger off at work the employer is still liable for workers’ compensation.
If they aren’t using a mask at home when they are making countertops as a hobby, fine, that’s on them. But they are at work.
An employee-employer relationship is born of a contract, a bargained-for exchange of labor for money, and with it an employer has a right to control. If the employer fails to exercise that right in order to protect its workers, such as by failing to compel PPE, the employer is more culpable than the employee. The employer could have taken the step of firing an employee who won’t comply with PPE in order to protect the worker, such an employer is therefore doubly culpable, in my view. It’s that element of compulsory control over the means and manner of work, including the employer’s right to terminate an employee who won’t use PPE, which excuses the employee from responsibility for resulting injuries.
The knowledge is out there and common, the machines come built in with hoses to damper the material. Run the hose. Wear a damn mask. It’s not hard.
I’m not going to feel especially sorry for folks who choose to not use safety equipment.
You know for a fact each and every machine is hooked up to water at all times? And every one of them runs perfectly or use of the machine is discontinued until it does? Every time without fail?
The hoses and proper masks need to be mandated as official PPE so that companies are required by law provide them.
Exactly. It is funny that the same people here who make fun of people who died of COVID because they willfully didn’t wear a mask, wash their hands, and get the vaccine. Well this ain’t that different. The process is there. The tools exist. Do the job right. You aren’t smarter than the engineers and scientists who developed these processes and wrote the safety instructions. Your stubbornness is not an excuse.
That’s not wrong, but you missed the part where the workers are employees.
They have sold the right to control the means and manner of their labor to their employer. It is the employer’s job to demand compliance, and the employer’s right to fire employees who do not comply for their own good. When a worker doesn’t comply and ends up sick, the employer has thus failed twice, the worker only once.
If the employer was not responsible, the employer could acquiesce to unsafe work, reap the financial benefits of the workers’ negligence, and then disclaim the damage caused just blaming the worker.
The employer has the right to control the means and manner of an employee’s work, it must exercise that right in a way that isn’t knowingly harmful to the worker. To do otherwise would be a bad faith breach of the employer-employee contract of hire.
Hide behind whatever bullshit you want, these workers knew the proper way to do things and didn’t do it. They fucked around and found out.
Per the article, the workers didn’t know. The employers didn’t tell them of the dangers or provide the necessary safety training/equipment. From the article:
“Dust was everywhere, he said, and he was given only a dust mask — one he said was inadequate for the job — to protect himself. Sometimes he brought a hose and tried to attach it to the machine to reduce dust, but there were no machines dispensing water as they were cutting, he said.”
“Segura Meza had never heard of silicosis before he was diagnosed.”
All these products have MSDS available. Every last one of them. And because of stupid “machismo” bullshit, the vast majority of these dopes wouldn’t use safety equipment whether it was provided or not.
It isn’t enough to have an available MSDS. I’ve just watched some mandated training videos on this actually. OSHA requires the following (in addition to other unlisted things):
-
Workplace hazards need to be clearly communicated. This includes a translation into the language that the workers generally speak, if necessary.
-
MSDS don’t just need to be regularly available, the workers also have to be trained in reading them and where they are.
-
The employer must provide PPE that is in working order and fit to use. Workers need to be trained in how to use these as well.
It isn’t enough to say that the workers should have known. The employer has significant responsibilities above and beyond that. Even if the workers don’t know about the PPE or don’t want it, the company has to still provide it. The workers have to know that PPE is required for the work, why it’s required, and what could happen without wearing it. Most places I’ve worked wouldn’t even let you into the field nor a lab unless you met the requirements. It’s hard to say what’s company culture vs legally mandated however here – everywhere I’ve worked, someone would blanche and yell at you if you walked in with just your plain clothes. Even if the employees scoff at safety, the law doesn’t change. I suspect this is why employers typically make it company policy to wear the proper PPE – that, and the heightened scrutiny if something does actually happen.
Funny enough, almost all of this is based on those required trainings I mentioned. Part of the training is informing workers of all this.
-
I’ve been to a place that does this. Everything was covered in water. It prevents any dust getting in the air. The slab and blades have water spraying over it. I don’t think a mask was even necessary. But without water I assume it would be awful.
to debilitate young workers, largely Latino immigrants
in an industry where immigrant workers typically labor in small shops and are often paid in cash
made their rounds at the parking lot of the Home Depot in San Fernando, where laborers in long-sleeve shirts waited for people to drive up and offer them work.
In the effort to be politically correct and not say “illegal immigrants”, they prevent the reader from knowing the true extent of the problem.
When an employer is willing to break employment laws related to immigration, they may also be more likely to break other laws, like workplace safety laws. When the employees are illegal immigrants, they’re not as able to complain to authorities when their employers are breaking safety laws.
If these workers were actual legal immigrants, they could blow the whistle on their employers. If they were unionized their union could shut down the business until their bosses took their safety seriously. But, because they’re illegal immigrants an unethical employer can treat them as disposable – and, pretty much by definition, anybody who is hiring illegal immigrants is an unethical employer.
The people affected here are largely stone workers. Stone workers used to be extremely powerful. The Freemason fraternal organization started as stone workers who held the secrets of the profession, supervised stoneworker qualifications, controlled their interactions with clients, regulated their interactions with the state, etc. Now, because of the widespread acceptance of illegal immigration, not only are stoneworkers not powerful, they’re disposable.
You make a good point about how workers have been played against each other to the disadvantage of all. However, there is a lot of area between illegal immigrants and full citizens who are comfortable bringing their employers to court. Many legal immigrants spend years in situations where being fired or quitting would mean having to leave the country. Depending on what they’d be going back to or what family and life they have built here in the meantime, they may be less free to rock the boat even if they felt confident in the legal system. Even citizens would be unlikely to take a stand without the support of some larger group.
Ironically the virus scare made N95s unobtanium or very expensive for several years there. Gonna guess that didn’t help with safety compliance amongst the mostly low-income people doing this kind of work.
That is sad to hear. I live in an area where almost no one wore masks. Even at the hight of the pandemic. Our local pharmacies got a bunch of N95s for free to give away free. There was supposed to be a limit but since no one was using them they would give me a lot of extra. I’m guessing they still have boxes stacked up somewhere.
Its also sad that this could have probably been prevented by using a wet saw with water hooked up. Anyone who has cut stone once without a wet saw walks away knowing they shouldn’t have been breathing that.
What always slays me is you seldom see pro contractors wearing eye protection or gloves either. Depending on the job I wouldn’t recommend going without.
Sand belongs on the ground and in our chips, not in our lungs.
And a little bit in our burritos.
I want nothing but potatoes in my chips!
Salt and vinegar my guy.
deleted by creator
