I’ll start by acknowledging that this isn’t my idea, credit to Sam Harris. I also don’t know if this is even controversial, but I figured this would be a better place to post than in Showerthoughts.

By consciousness, I mean the subjective experience of what it feels like to be. As philosopher Thomas Nagel put it:

‘An organism has conscious mental states if and only if there is something that it is like to be that organism—something it is like for the organism.’

It’s at least conceivable that things like free will, the self, or even the entire universe could be an illusion. For all we know, we could be living in a simulation and nothing might be real. Even if you don’t believe that, there’s still a greater-than-zero chance you could be wrong. However, this doesn’t apply to consciousness itself. Even if everything is just a hallucination, it remains an undeniable fact that it feels like something to hallucinate. To claim that consciousness could be an illusion is a self-contradictory statement as consciousness is where illusions appear.

  • Redacted@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    2 months ago

    Ok, I agree it can’t be an illusion the way you define it, I don’t think that would be an unpopular opinion.

    I also maintain that it cannot be defined the way you define it.

    • ContrarianTrail@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      You’re also not offering a definition you like better. This is quite widely accepted definition among the people thinking about this stuff. If I were to leave it undefined it would be impossible to argue against the point I’m making because there wouldn’t be certainty that we’re even talking about the same thing.

      • Redacted@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        2 months ago

        I couldn’t claim to have a definition as the origins of consciousness are still unknown to science and not formally defined.

        However your definition is definitely not the widely accepted one. It doesn’t even offer a proper definition, all it does is push the unknowns to “what it is like to be that organism”.

        Who defines what it is to “be” something? What is the smallest unit of “being”? Are we saying that consciousness is an inherent property of organisms or could it be recreated on a computer?

        • ContrarianTrail@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          2 months ago

          Consciousness is the fact that it feels like something to be. It’s the feels like part that’s relevant here. Not the to be part. It’s the subjective quality of experience. It describes a phenomenom in the real world, doesn’t explain it. There is no evidence of consciousness in the world except for the fact that you can experience it yourself. It’s entirely subjective.

          • Redacted@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            But then you’re just pushing the unknown/undefined part to “feels like”.

            We cannot define it properly so we can’t discuss it formally or make assertions like it’s the only thing in the universe that is not an illusion.

            You could assert “Cogito, ergo sum.” but that’s kind of been done before.