I’ve often pondered about how Vulcans view gender and sexuality.

I think pre-Surak/logic, they may have demonstrated homophobia and transphobia, but modern Vulcan Society would probably be chill with it under the reasoning that discrimination would reduce a person’s efficacy as a functional member of Vulcan Society. For instance, given a choice between allowing a person to contribute verses driving them to the brink of suicide, Vulcans would probably tend to lean towards the first option.

There could very well still be stigma (Vulcans are far from a perfect society; some may have views that it is illogical to have a romantic relationship without a child), but it’s dampened by the logic from the previous paragraph.

There’s also the Pon Farr to keep in mind. Not only would it be hard to fight a person in the Ponn Farr, but also you’d literally be killing them by trying to prevent expression of their orientation.

  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.caEnglish
    3·
    3 months ago

    My opinion, since modern Vulcans suppress their emotions, the only logical reason to have a mate is procreation. So the vast majority of society is “straight” as a result of that logic.

    At the same time, I would argue that it is an illogical activity to exclude someone of value to society based on who they have chosen to mate with. Logically, unless their choice of mate somehow affects their job/employment/task (whatever you want to call it), I don’t see a logical reason why their choice in a mate would matter to anyone else.

    The only logical argument I can find in all of this, is that choosing a mate based on feeling/preference, instead of logic, might demonstrate that an individual is more emotional and therefore less logical. And I think we all know how Vulcans feel about things that are not logical and/or things that act upon their feelings…

    Personally, I don’t see that having a preference in a mate, even one that steps outside the heteronormative, is a flaw in their logic. If you enjoy your time with your mate, and that makes you a better, more productive individual, then I fail to see a problem.

    • williams_482@startrek.websiteMEnglish
      5·
      3 months ago

      The only logical argument I can find in all of this, is that choosing a mate based on feeling/preference, instead of logic, might demonstrate that an individual is more emotional and therefore less logical. And I think we all know how Vulcans feel about things that are not logical and/or things that act upon their feelings…

      Personally, I don’t see that having a preference in a mate, even one that steps outside the heteronormative, is a flaw in their logic. If you enjoy your time with your mate, and that makes you a better, more productive individual, then I fail to see a problem.

      I don’t see any evidence that Vulcans don’t completely agree with your own personal stance here.

      Vulcans clearly do act upon personal values, desires, preferences, etc, that we as humans would view as emotional responses. “I want [a cookie/you to live long and prosper/to have galactic peace/to solve this math equation/etc]” is, for a human, a statement inherently rooted in an emotional assessment. The Vulcans themselves, however, clearly do not view these things as emotional expression.

      We see partnerships which don’t produce children, and despite Vulcans having no filter whatsoever when it comes to criticizing others for being “illogical”, nobody seems to have anything to say to Sarek for apparently having no children with his last wife Perrin. When Tuvok is separated from his wife, he acknowledges on multiple occasions that he misses her because he wants to be able to spend time with her; he certainly doesn’t bemoan the missed opportunity to fulfill a societal obligation to pop out more babies.

      We don’t have explicit counterfactuals here, but we all know that ultimately comes down to Doylist reasons. There’s no reason we should assume that Vulcan society shares Rick Berman’s personal sense of morality in this area.

      • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.caEnglish
        2·
        3 months ago

        Fair enough.

        There are certainly aspects of desire that can be viewed as non-emotional. Not even just in sexual desire, but in general. Like, “I want a cookie” doesn’t have to be an emotionally driven sentiment. Having want/desire does not necessarily mean an emotional drive for that thing.

        Also, there are many ways to miss someone. If I were separated from my partner for a long period of time, her presence would be missed. Beyond the obvious physical intimacy, having someone around to talk with that I trust and value the opinion of; and someone I can share humerus stories with, or memes/quips that I heard or made. Or simply the knowledge of having them near in case I need assistance in any capacity. It’s a comfort.

        There’s more to it than just intimacy, and emotion; though, being an inherently emotional human, I recognise those aspects in myself as well.

        I admire the Vulcans. I think they’re on to something.