To answer your question: power imbalance in the group since there are those who run out of ammo and those who don’t. It’s not hard to understand “some rules apply to some but not all”
Also those who do count will become frustrated since their book keeping isnt valued. Also their immersion gets broken when they know that the other factions theoretically don’t have any ammunition left yet they still fire.
So you dodge your question because you are too tired. Fine. Bebye. Maybe someone will have the ideas and the stamina to actually propose something that makes any sort of sense.
Because all you said is : its not fair.
But is it fair to ask players that do not want to trak ammo to do it because 2 other players want to ?
No. No its not fair. Its fairer to be unfair by allowing everyone to play as they prefer at once than being fair by FORCING everyone to play the same ammo wise.
So, either downvote and go away, or bring me ideas and arguments to counter this.
ok focus. thats a new question. but i will answer it and if you come up with a new variant it will require a new answer. the result in the rules of most games is a loss of money on the side of the ones tracking vs not tracking (and further the ammo tracker can run out of ammo while the non tracker has an infinite supply). essentially the non trackers don’t have to buy ammo and in most rpgs money is a big element of power and balance. Heck tracking is only the start of it. I assume ammo will be tracked if the default rules indicate it which is like 99% of the games I come across. If the dm says I don’t need to I don’t. But if its tracked then after combat I ask if I can retrieve ammo. some dms will allow all ammo to be retrieved (which actually makes tracking pretty pointless). some will rule crit fails cannot be retrieved. still others will have you make some sort of skill roll that determines how much ammo you can recycle and finally some will not allow any ammo retrieving.
And you know what ? You are entirely right. Thoses tracking ammo will have to shell out gold that thoses that dont… wont have to.
But here is the thing. Most fights lasts 4 rounds in average. At low levels, it means 4 arrows per fight.
And arrows are 20 for 1 gold.
So, the money difference in most fights is : 1 gold piece for every 5 fights.
Its nothing. For reference, the smallest health potion is worth 50 gold pieces. Which represents 1000 arrows. Which represents more or less 250 fights. More than a whole campaign.
You are correct. But the thing is, that amount of money is negligeable.
Thank you for the straight answer. Its just not big enough to change my mind when I could give an extra 5 gold pieces to thoses that prefer to track ammo and be good for inter player balance for months of playing time.
I was never tying to change your mind. I just brought up that the dm makes the call on rpg rules. there is a reason its much easier to find players than dms
A very very very VERY small part of why it matters indeed. Tiny. Sadly there aren’t better arguments than “because the DM said so” apparently.
I run a campaign actually. One of the restrictions at character creation is that it needs to be a small race.
If a player asks me : why ? There is a huge lore, roleplaying and world building reason behind it.
The day I answer : because Im the DM amd I say so, I will become the worst DM kind there is and will be ashamed. If there isn’t a solid and reasonable reason behind every rule or specificities, it will not happen.
Because Im trying to be a fun DM that my players will like having as one.
BTW, my campaign is 2 years old and still going, so I must not suck too badly at it.
I dont’ see a reply like thats because that is the way the world is. BTW your interpretation on the effect of the gold is a bit skewed. Basica ammo cost is only comparable early on as later level there will be more expensive magic ammo which actually is pretty important to keep track of. In addition you have encumberance which is a factor. I usually build assuming the dm will not make an exception and allow ammo to be magically unlimited with no tracking needed. Usually I buy 20 but sometimes the gold is so tight that im down to the copper and I will do 10. Since bow characters are lighter on str and if im still doing some melee weapons, armor, and shield. It makes a difference. It is good to know if a dm is going to allow magical ammo because instead of a spellslinger I might just go for a dex ranged warrior since my magically unlimited ammo is going to be way more effective than the magically unlimited cantrips. As a dm you make the call in your campaign just like when your a player your dm makes the call. Thats not going to change because you have a preference on a style of play. Heck I prefer the dm to do all the die rolling but I assume in most campaigns I roll the die and generally do. There is no good, legitamate reason the players roll the die rather than the gm and its way more fun to just play your character and find out how the actions you tried come out. But that is really just my one opinion.
Still not answering me. I will try one last time. Focus please :
What is the worst that would happen if the players that wants to track it do it and thoses that dont dont ?
To answer your question: power imbalance in the group since there are those who run out of ammo and those who don’t. It’s not hard to understand “some rules apply to some but not all”
Also those who do count will become frustrated since their book keeping isnt valued. Also their immersion gets broken when they know that the other factions theoretically don’t have any ammunition left yet they still fire.
If you allow this as a DM you fucking failed!
But if its by choice, whats the problem ? You just have to say : I no longer to want to track ammo, and boom you are good.
If you want to track ammo, manage to run out, how hypocrite is it to be jealous of thoses that never wanted to in the first place ?
I wish you happy gaming.
I mean, as dodging the question is, at least its nice.
Happy gaming to you too fellow.
Let me put it that way eddy. I don’t dodge your question, I’m just tired of trying to convey the issues that you don’t want to see.
So you dodge your question because you are too tired. Fine. Bebye. Maybe someone will have the ideas and the stamina to actually propose something that makes any sort of sense.
Because all you said is : its not fair.
But is it fair to ask players that do not want to trak ammo to do it because 2 other players want to ?
No. No its not fair. Its fairer to be unfair by allowing everyone to play as they prefer at once than being fair by FORCING everyone to play the same ammo wise.
So, either downvote and go away, or bring me ideas and arguments to counter this.
ok focus. thats a new question. but i will answer it and if you come up with a new variant it will require a new answer. the result in the rules of most games is a loss of money on the side of the ones tracking vs not tracking (and further the ammo tracker can run out of ammo while the non tracker has an infinite supply). essentially the non trackers don’t have to buy ammo and in most rpgs money is a big element of power and balance. Heck tracking is only the start of it. I assume ammo will be tracked if the default rules indicate it which is like 99% of the games I come across. If the dm says I don’t need to I don’t. But if its tracked then after combat I ask if I can retrieve ammo. some dms will allow all ammo to be retrieved (which actually makes tracking pretty pointless). some will rule crit fails cannot be retrieved. still others will have you make some sort of skill roll that determines how much ammo you can recycle and finally some will not allow any ammo retrieving.
Finally a straight answer.
And you know what ? You are entirely right. Thoses tracking ammo will have to shell out gold that thoses that dont… wont have to.
But here is the thing. Most fights lasts 4 rounds in average. At low levels, it means 4 arrows per fight.
And arrows are 20 for 1 gold.
So, the money difference in most fights is : 1 gold piece for every 5 fights.
Its nothing. For reference, the smallest health potion is worth 50 gold pieces. Which represents 1000 arrows. Which represents more or less 250 fights. More than a whole campaign.
You are correct. But the thing is, that amount of money is negligeable.
Thank you for the straight answer. Its just not big enough to change my mind when I could give an extra 5 gold pieces to thoses that prefer to track ammo and be good for inter player balance for months of playing time.
I was never tying to change your mind. I just brought up that the dm makes the call on rpg rules. there is a reason its much easier to find players than dms
So we agree that your argument, althought valid, isnt big enough to matter ?
And were back at this : dont count normal ammo if you dont want to.
If youre the DM, then tell me why it matters and I might grow from the answer.
But gold isnt it.
yeah we agree the dm makes the call and if its done or not does not matter much and gold is part of why it matters.
A very very very VERY small part of why it matters indeed. Tiny. Sadly there aren’t better arguments than “because the DM said so” apparently.
I run a campaign actually. One of the restrictions at character creation is that it needs to be a small race.
If a player asks me : why ? There is a huge lore, roleplaying and world building reason behind it.
The day I answer : because Im the DM amd I say so, I will become the worst DM kind there is and will be ashamed. If there isn’t a solid and reasonable reason behind every rule or specificities, it will not happen.
Because Im trying to be a fun DM that my players will like having as one.
BTW, my campaign is 2 years old and still going, so I must not suck too badly at it.
I dont’ see a reply like thats because that is the way the world is. BTW your interpretation on the effect of the gold is a bit skewed. Basica ammo cost is only comparable early on as later level there will be more expensive magic ammo which actually is pretty important to keep track of. In addition you have encumberance which is a factor. I usually build assuming the dm will not make an exception and allow ammo to be magically unlimited with no tracking needed. Usually I buy 20 but sometimes the gold is so tight that im down to the copper and I will do 10. Since bow characters are lighter on str and if im still doing some melee weapons, armor, and shield. It makes a difference. It is good to know if a dm is going to allow magical ammo because instead of a spellslinger I might just go for a dex ranged warrior since my magically unlimited ammo is going to be way more effective than the magically unlimited cantrips. As a dm you make the call in your campaign just like when your a player your dm makes the call. Thats not going to change because you have a preference on a style of play. Heck I prefer the dm to do all the die rolling but I assume in most campaigns I roll the die and generally do. There is no good, legitamate reason the players roll the die rather than the gm and its way more fun to just play your character and find out how the actions you tried come out. But that is really just my one opinion.
This is excellent.
For the reason why players like to roll the die : because its fun to roll dice.
Thank you