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An idling gas engine may be annoyingly loud, but that’s the price you pay for having WAY less torque available at a standstill.

  • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    Real answer: power density. Pound for pound, gas still contains more energy than our best batteries. The weight of energy storage is still a massive deal for anything that cannot be tethered to a grid or be in close practical proximity for frequent recharging, from rockets, planes and cars (sometimes) to chainsaws and lawnmowers (sometimes).

    • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      Do we ignore fuel distribution costs? How much fuel is required to distribute fuel to the stations? Shipping oil from high-conflict areas?

      Electric is stipl very much problematic, with the coal burning. But at least it has a lot of headroom to improve, and can be produced locally.

      Oh, and my fucking lungs mate.

    • Takashiro@lemmy.today
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      5 months ago

      Density is relative to efficiency, and electric wins

      What i cannot understand is people trying to defend something that is clearly worse,

      • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Googling tells me that:

        • Electric cars have 77% efficiency
        • Gas cars have 30% efficiency
        • Electric car batteries have 270 Wh/kg (converts to 0.97 MJ/kg)
        • Gasoline has 46 MJ/kg

        So the math here says electric gives you (0.97 * 77%) 0.75 MJ/kg output and gas gives you (46 * 30%) 13.8 MJ/kg output. Plus, as someone else said, spent gasoline no longer weighs you down.

        I like the idea of electric, and I want to see it replace gas as soon as possible, but fair is fair.

        • bitwolf@lemmy.one
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          5 months ago

          Technically empty batteries weigh less than charged batteries.

          Not that the difference is significant enough to tip the scale though.

        • someacnt_@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          How do you think about hydrogen cars? They have better fuel density, and hydrogen is renewable.

      • Manalith@midwest.social
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        5 months ago

        The argument that I’ve heard is that electric cars aren’t actually cleaner because of the pollution caused by mining the minerals required for the batteries.

        • FrederikNJS@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          I’m sorry but I’m too lazy to dig up links to back up my claim. But you are correct in that electric vehicles pollute far more being produced than combustion engine cars, however the electric vehicles gain that back over it’s lifetime if your charge from mostly non-fossil sources. The figures I have read says that over the lifetime of a car, electrics output 70% less CO2 than combustion cars, and that includes the production of each of the cars.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        A dead battery is far worse than an empty jerry can, atleast the jerry can is light. Hell there are even some real nice collapsible ones and thats not even accounting for fuel bladders. Electric is useful but it is also rather rigid as well.

      • Revan343@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        A pound of dead battery doesn’t help me when I’m camping 10km from the nearest access to the power grid. (There are actually powerlines not even a kilometre from my favourite campsite, but those are going to be measured in kV, and so aren’t really useful to me.)

        Now, if I had enough solar panels in a mobile setup, probably folding out of a trailer, I could make it work, but solar panels are expensive.

          • DaPorkchop_@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            Sure, but even then there are plenty of cases where a solar panel doesn’t make much sense either. If you’re cutting down a tree in the woods, would you rather grab your gas-powered chainsaw out of your truck and cut down the tree, or grab your solar-powered chainsaw out of your truck, spend minutes setting up solar panels to pick up the small amount of sunlight which makes it to the forest floor, and then cut down the tree?

            The point is there will always be a market for ICEs until there are batteries with competitive energy density to gasoline. You don’t see solar- or battery-powered trains or construction/mining equipment because these things need huge amounts of energy to work, energy which can be easily stored in a fairly small fuel tank (which can be quickly topped off when necessary).

            • FiFoFree@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Absolutely, just like there’s some things a horse can do that a car just can’t.

              I don’t plan on buying a horse or needing to do those things, and I don’t think the vast majority do either.

              The end result is that there will still be ICEs in niche applications, but those who know how to operate them and the supply chains that currently make them cheap and dominant will slowly die off.