Based on the excerpt from this Discworld book, what other items do you use regularly that would fit in this theory? (Boots and shoes are fair game!)
Text transcript for people who want it:
[The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socioeconomic unfairness.]
Bonus: suggest ways you can repair/restore your item/other people’s items.
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It’s expensive to be poor
It really is. I have a few friends who are not doing very well, and it amazes me the shit they have to pay for.
This whole thread reminded me of this old viral tweet
This and Chocolate Rain, I guess that’s two times he’s made an impression on my life now
Wait! This is the same guy?
Yup!
I’ve been paying and paying and paying for that damn root canal.
That one dental problem has cost me way more money than i made at that job in total.
My problem is I don’t know what products are expensive because they are good, and what products are a scam. No idea how to even search to find out either.
Oh easy, I just check for a thread on reddit where two guys are at each other’s throats arguing the merits of different crescent wrenches
…oh, wait.
It depends on the category of the item you are planning to buy, there are lots of gear reviews blogs/sites for outdoor gear as well as tech. As for clothing, I YouTube the brand for review videos… A bit more time consuming than just impulse buying on the spot but this way, you can make an educated guess on the quality of what you are planning to spend your hard earned money on.
I see Sir PTerry, I upvote.
And hey, just sliding this totally smoothly into the conversation, did you all know we have [email protected] (Lemmy / Kbin)
*sidles out awkwardly*
Super neat!! Thanks for the link. :) If anyone likes the style of writing, go look at the Discworld community. These books are great.
I’m hoping this quote can drive some critical thinking about sustainability, and maybe some discussion about how to better what people CAN afford/already have.
Boots, shoes, clothes, technology, cars, houses, furniture.
Everything.
House. If you can afford to buy one, it is much cheaper than to pay rent over decades.
Training. If you can afford to not earn money for a few years, training in a valuable skill will earn you much money.
More training. Sometimes you just need to stop earning money for a year.
Tools. It may be hard to choose good tools, some are overpriced for no good reason, but tools you work with instead of working around is a productivity booster.
BTW, this theory has a name in socio-economics, it is called the “poverty trap” (aka “it is expensive to be poor”) it is not as much how the rich get richer (there are a lot of more salient mechanisms there) but more about how the poor remain poor.
Renting -
Buying a house is like having a bank account you can’t access until you want to move. Renting a house is just paying into someone else’s bank, and you end up unable to save for your own.
The rich don’t get rich by saving more or spending less: though it is an advantage when they choose to use it.
The rich get rich by exploiting the labor (or income from labor) of those less fortunate than them.
On the plus side, short notice and a little risk and you can just move. New job? Bad neighbour? New family? Other changes in needs?
Trying to sell property can be a massive pain and take ages in many places.
@H3L1X reminds me of one rule from woodworkers/DIYers – buy a cheap set of tools, when one of the tools breaks, replace that one tool with a more expensive one (upgrading based on use)
This works for all sorts of things, especially automotive tools, but there’s one exception that I live by.
Don’t cheap out on the things that come between you and the ground.
Your shoes, your socks, your tires, your bed, the chair you spend twelve hours a day in. Those are worth some investment. It pays dividends.
That is true, I do quite like that rule.
In 2021 I rented a car and did Uber for about a year. At $316 a week, that car was costing me 1200 a month!
Eventually I lost the car as I couldnt afford to pay.
Now I’ve got a job, been building my credit, gonna buy a car instead. That car will be about $300/mo. And all because I’ve got the credit and cash to buy instead of rent.
Is public transportation not a thing where you live?
If they are American it’s not pretty common in many places from what I’ve learned
This car will also be for Uber.
Can you imagine you order an Uber and the driver rolls up like “hey man, c’mon, I got you the day pass but the bus leaves in like 2 minutes”
Car repair. Towing and fixing a car with a ruined engine is ten times as much as doing regular maintenance. And it’s not just the dollar cost of oil changes and belts: When you are better off, you have the free time to run that errand to do those things.
Dental care, for almost the exact same reasons.
General healthcare has all of those factors PLUS if your general health goes bad you may not be able to work so now fixing it is expensive and you have no income.
Car
repair.Sorry, I usually don’t make these shallow comments. But cars are just another way to accumulate money for the rich few. Transportation is the boot, and we can’t afford good public transit and international railways.
Sorry, I don’t think I fully follow. Would you care to explain how cars are a way to accumulate money for the rich?
Thats what the concept ‘conscious spending’ tries to address and set up protocols to get out of the negative feedback cycle of having to constantly buy cheap shit only to have to replace it and double your cost.
https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/conscious-spending-basics/
The link above has much more details on this if y’all are interested.
A key component of Vimes’ theory is that he buys cheap boots because he can’t afford the expensive ones. Conscientious spending assumes the person has a choice; it isn’t an option for Vimes, or for many people.
There are many things that it makes sense to simply buy the cheap version of: things that’ll be used infrequently, or which usefullness is unknown. Gadgets which a friend loves and recommends, but which end up being simply unused.
I haven’t read the book you recommend; maybe it says all this. I do think, though, that for all the evils of cheap consumer goods, they’ve put much in the hands of people who would not otherwise be able to afford it.
as explained in our book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich.
Yeah, no… that’s a pass from me.
My mother always says: we are not so rich to afford cheap stuff.
For exactly this reason
Problem now is “luxury” brands, which is the same shit quality at a huge markup. Quality is often not even a consideration for producers these days.
In the UK you have to pay car tax which basically is a tax on vehicles which obstensively covers road maintenance.
If you pay monthly then you have to pay 12 units for one year.
However if you can afford to pay one lot all in one go then you only have to pay the equivalent of 10 units. Essentially you get two months for free.
Now presumably this is because it is easier to account for your budget if you get it all in one job lot right at the beginning of the year. So it is worth them giving you a economic incentive to do that. But loads of people cannot afford that so they end up paying more money.
Most people keep a car for what five ir six years? In that time the effectively pay an entire extra years worth of road tax if they pay monthly rather than yearly.
Boo.
I don’t live in the UK, would you be willing to give an example of what the yearly lump sum is vs the monthly fee? I’m genuinely curious!
It depends on vehicle emissions.
Bagels which put out more carbon dioxide get taxed more heavily. This has always been the case but it’s how it’s always been worked out as long as I’ve been driving. I’m not sure how it worked historically.
My car is a diesel. So it’s output is worse (greater) than a petrol car.
My yearly tax is, paying monthly, £180 per year. My yearly tax is, paying yearly, £170 per year.
Not much for my car, but then again it’s a boring ass people carrier with suspect electronics, because I’m 180,000 years old.
@sunshine It’s very true. There are ways to break the cycle but being poor often means also not having the time to fix or pick up stuff. I have been living of a low income for years now. I think like 80% percent of the stuff I own has been free or second hand.
Clothes dryer, washing machine, dishwasher, oven, microwave, furniture, clothes etc. etc. Sometimes it’s tedious and frustrating.
But I also didn’t have to work full time or two jobs just to buy all that crap new.
It means I get to spend money on good shoes for me and the kids. Good mattresses. New clothes for the kids because social pressure dictates it. Food.
The rest I build, repair, trade etc. etc. If this capitalist society collapses I’m fucked, off course.Being poor is expensive.
@huskypenguin I agree. I think I’m rich in time. That’s why I don’t think I’m poor. It could al be an illusion. Like most people I’m just one missed paycheck away from serious debt and maybe two from losing the house due to missed rent.
Planned obsolescence is another problem to add to this. I’ve had coffee makers (thermal fuse won’t reset), TVs (logic board and LED backlight), garbage disposals (internal seals), garage door openers (capacitor), and fridges (ice maker) all fail 1-2 months after the warrenty in the past 5 years.
Want to get a serviceable unit with readily available parts? Well you can pay 10x the cost.
One of the interesting things about the second -hand market is that really good quality items survive two or three owners even, so someone who is knowledgable about quality items or who takes the time to research before getting things can actually be getting significantly better stuff than someone who is buying new.
That being said, being poor makes it hard to have the time or have the opportunity to learn about what is good vs what is bad quality. And people can get really ripped off by vendors who are selling bad quality but making it seems like good quality.
@Otakat Yes. Sometimes it’s very specific. I burned money on items that where damaged beyond repair but looked ok on first glance, or just from a different production run that had terrible quality control.
At the moment, mostly due to inflation, people with better income have discovered the second hand market. Which leads to increased prices at thrift stores and online marketplaces. Sometimes the prices in thrift stores are higher for cheap made in china stuff then getting it new in “dollar shop” like places. It’s bizarre.
