In every single article you read about UBI (universal basic income) you read about all the wonderful utopian possibilities. I have not seen one article mention what I believe will be the truth. The governments of the world will use it as a threat against behavior they want modified or won’t tolerate.
If you get a few DUIs what happens? They take away your license because driving is a privilege. Well, imagine being poor and needing the monthly UBI money and the government tells you that if you do this specific act you will lose your UBI.
It will be subtle at first and resemble some typical government hoop-jumping bureaucracy. Then a slippery slope of things you cannot do will slowly erode your rights. Did you attend a protest? In the U.S., the First Amendment grants you the right to do that but UBI is not a right it is a privilege so you lose your UBI.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
That’s what the U part of UBI is for. Otherwise you just have a BI.
Right. If it isn’t guaranteed, with no means testing, then it isn’t “Universal”
First of all, if you drink and drive you should lose your licence.
Second, this is one of the many reasons why it’s so important that we work hard to protect our democratic values and better the democratic systems that are already in place. Unfortunately an increasing number of people are willing to support leaders who aim to break down those democratic systems and enchroach civil rights.
In a well run democratic system (read: not USA) UBI can be a boon. It may be idealistic to a degree, but well worth striving for.
100% agree with you. And I think the comment:
Well, imagine being poor and needing the monthly UBI money and the government tells you that if you do this specific act you will lose your UBI.
Misses the point. This literally already exists with Employment Insurance, Unemployment, etc.
If we’re in a democracy then yeah, governments can absolutely find ways to try to remove people from having it… But what’s worse: the vast majority of people having enough to scrape by, or the vast majority of people not having enough to scrape by?
Every single point against UBI already exists as a problem. Why not at least get the good parts.
What you are describing are conditions so that would by definition not be UBI.
A semantic argument isn’t going to stop an authoritarian goverment.
The idea is to implement it with inherent protections in place
And how’s life without UBI in an authoritarian government?
Are any such governments likely to implement UBI in the first place?
“Well you see, Mr. President, what you’ve actually created is simply just BI, or basic income, becaus- wait, who are these guys? Put your guns down. I take it back, I love Zionism”
How do you think this current system works lol.
They already do all this with social safety net programs like Social Security and HUD/Section 8. Go to jail, lose your benefits. Every year is a ton of hoop jumping and massive stress while I recertify for my housing voucher and the measly $2 in food stamps they give my family per month. And that’s without me even going to protests anymore.
I’ve always wondered this about UBI, so if anyone can please inform me that would be welcomed: If UBI is implemented, what stops companies, rent, etc. From using UBI income as a baseline to increase their costs due to the fact they know you always have certain minimum incomes? I feel like those cost increases completely negate any extra one would get from UBI
There would likely be some inflationary pressure, but it also allows for making some areas more economically viable.
I could see how lesser populated areas would become more viable since jobs can be distant, but everywhere else it would be effectively moot, yeah? For example, UBI of 1k for everyone, why would an apartment complex not just raise rent by 1k? The people could already afford what they were paying and now guaranteed have an extra 1k a month, so the price change is “net zero” to the consumer (in a twisted corporate view) and now rent is baseline 1k greater and the people gain nothing from this change in any reasonably populated area.
If this example is wrong in some way lemmy know!
I agree with this thought. Same problem with welfare. You must work a certain number of hours to get it but not make over a certain amount. This allows Walmart to have a legion of no benefit having part time workers getting paid minimum wage. You keep those bad jobs because taking a better one means you lose welfare and all the additional government benefits.
This will be a revenue stream for capitalists. What you need to do is provide the basic needs and not cash. Food, healthcare and shelter. People now do not need to work and employers have to pay better to get people to work for them.
So UBI is really just a call for more social programs provided by the government (local or otherwise) not supplemented funding that goes to companies/corporations and is an inherent accessible resource with no prequalifications other than (in the USA for example) having an SSN?
my feeling is rather than making housing projects the government contracts with companies to provide a room, facilities, and a cafeteria somewhat like a college dorm if you had a single and that would be the amount of UBI. Folks can then sign up at one of those if they need to but they could also just get a roomate in a standard rental situation or whatever. Or they might make some money and afford something better. Keep in mind UBI is not just extra money all around. Someone like me who is doing alright would be paying as much in tax as I get back. But if I lose my job, or become disabled, or just need to retire. It would be there immediately. Obsiously folks like musk and bezos would pay way more in taxes than they would ever get back but they would still get it.
So in the end, it’s not about UBI at all, it’s about having social support programs that are not private companies/corporations funded by the government but supplied directly by the government? I.E. government housing paid by the “UBI tax system” that remains a stagnant amount based off the UBI number?
So UBI just amounts to more fair distribution of taxes and social support programs?
edit to clarify, these social programs are just inherently given with no pre-requirement from any person
It’s almost like capitalism is the problem 🤔
OP when the straw man they built is flammable: 🤯😧😬
You already cant use cash many places.
Putting people onto digital payments, credit cards, and digital currency will all acheive the same control.
Universal
Are you familiar with currency? That’s one of the oldest control mechanisms humankind has ever invented… 🤪
I could see it being realistically denied to convicted criminals (felonies), because the thinking will be, “If you’re a good citizen participating in society, then you’re entitled to UBI, but when you break that social contract, you lose that benefit”. And when you’re sent to jail/prison, the State becomes responsible for you anyways, so I’m sure the idea would be to just funnel your UBI towards your incarceration costs.
It being used against citizens for political reasons seems like something Republicans would do, so I think it would be necessary to build in protections to prevent UBI from being denied citizens for any reason other than maybe a felony conviction.
Why would a felony conviction disqualify you? In many places, getting caught with weed would be enough to disqualify you.
Perhaps don’t give the money to people while they are in prison, since all of their needs should be fulfilled already. But disqualifying someone after their time is served defeats the purpose of UBI itself and of prison as a means of reform.
The idea behind Universal Basic Income (UBI) is that everyone gets it. Rich, poor, and everyone in between. There is no criteria (other than maybe citizenship) that would prohibit getting the money. That helps to prevent what you are describing.
I’m sure someone will figure out a way to make it terrible in some way, but we have to implement it first and then deal with the hiccups.
Yeah but that wouldn’t be UBI cause then it wouldn’t be universal…
Any good idea can have a monkeys paw twist to it if you control the rules
The government right now encourages behavior it wants right now with tax breaks. They want you to have kids, child credit. They want you to open a factory, tax break on top of depreciation expenses.
yeah to some degree. you would not get it if incarcerated or such but is it really more control than the economic system already inflicts on us? I don’t think so.
