• captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Low turnout doesn’t change their minds it makes them think they need to either go further to the center or that Americans are too lazy

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Low turnout consistently favors republicans, that’s why they do all they can to make it harder to vote, not going out to vote is basically for the republicans, who are at this point, basically a Fascist party.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The Democrats go further to the center no matter what, but they only win when they run to the left. Obama ran as a radical leftist that was going to deliver universal healthcare and hold the banks accountable, but jettisoned that as quick as he could. The truth is they just want to be in the center, and they’ll justify it no matter the turnout or outcome of the election.

        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Off the top of my head, he was going to bailout the mortgage holders, reign in the banks, close Gitmo, end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, pass universal healthcare, and end warrantless wiretaps. He either abandoned those objectives (sometimes when he held a super-majority) or technically did something but not really (like ending the warrantless wiretap program but creating a mass surveillance program). Anyway, maybe, “radical leftist,” is a little hyperbolic, but he ran further to the left than anyone had since the 70s and he governed slightly to the left of George W.

          • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            It’s more accurate to say he made leftist promises, and then turned out to be just another conservative asshole with amazing oratory skills.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              I’m sorry, I must have missed the part where Obama stripped gay people of their rights

              • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                He didn’t really do anything for gay rights either. He didn’t even support gay marriage until his second term. Gay marriage only became law because of the Supreme Court.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Imagine the privilege of someone unable to tell the difference between casual indifference and outright hostility.

                  • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    OK, well what the hell are you talking about? Who, “stripped gay people of their rights?” Because in my lifetime, there have been two major changes in gay rights. One was DOMA, which rejected gay marriage, and was passed by a Republican congress and signed by Bill Clinton. The other was the Obergefell v. Hodges, where a conservative leaning Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. So why is this your litmus test? Why does being ambivalent on gay rights for half his Presidency mean Obama can’t be a, “conservative asshole?”

            • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Heavy sits the crown

              I think it might actually be impossible to remain a good person as a president, even if you manage to somehow be a good person who can become president (also rare)

              • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                The president definitely has to be an asshole to some extent, because it’s impossible to make everyone happy in this country.

                With that said, we’ve seen presidents do what they say they’re gonna do, even as progressives. We sat through four years of Trump using every possible resource to do the awful stuff he did, and there’s no good reason why anyone should look at Biden and expect less than that.

                Democrats deserve credit for ruling as conservatives. They reinforced the narrative that voting is pointless, at least in terms of federal elections.

                • Eccitaze@yiffit.net
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                  10 months ago

                  Expecting Biden to rule like Trump is absolutely fucking insane. He ignored or broke any rule that stood in his way, and it got many of his policy initiatives shut down by the courts until he went back and did it the proper way, with the end result being that he was so busy fighting in the courts he didn’t have time to do everything he wanted. He tried to exploit his powers to persecute his opponents and got impeached over it. He shut down the government over border wall funding and got nothing for it. The only areas he was actually successful in pushing the boundaries of acceptability were in grifting the government by staying at his properties and charging inflated prices I’m violation of the emoluments clause.

                  I’m a leftist because I believe government can be a force for good, and because I believe in the rule of law and in fighting against corruption. If Biden or any democrat acted like Trump did, I’d vote them out in a heartbeat.

        • Grass@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          By my understanding, radical left for Americans and also slightly less so but also Canadians is kinda center right for the rest of the world. I’ve also heard people start calling politicians radical when they bait and switch even though that’s not really how that word works.

            • Soggy@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              “Radical” just means “outside the status quo”. “Extremist” is more the term you want there.

                • Soggy@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  That is a better way of putting it, thanks. Not just outside the status quo but pushing to change it. I still think it carries a milder connotation than neo-Nazis or Anarchists and different language should be used for the fringe than just further-than-mainstream politics.

                  • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    I don’t know many honest people for whom the current system is working great, so I’d warrant that not being some kind of radical might be the more extreme position

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                10 months ago

                if we’re talking extremists we’re talking our boy the unambomber, and uh, the people that bombed abortion clinics, maybe.

                I dont actually have a good second handle for extremists on the right lol. I guess hate criming nazis? That kind of shit.

      • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        He didn’t jettison his healthcare plans, he was railroaded by an uncooperative Congress. The fact that he was able to get the ACA passed, even as neutered as it is, is nothing short of miraculous compared to the relative lack of delivery of even a single campaign promise by any president in recent history.

        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          He had a huge margin in the House, a super-majority in the Senate, and he chose to pass the Heritage Foundation’s Healthcare proposal. Clinton didn’t even have that majorities like that his first term. If Obama couldn’t get that congress to cooperate he wasn’t fit to lead.

          • TooManyFoods@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            He lost the super majority very quickly, and it was rarely an effective supermajority. Having 60 geriatric men in a room at one time is hard. Byrd was in the hospital, and frankin had been denied his seat for months. By the time the aca passed they’d lost the “super” part of the majority anyway.

            • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              I’m pretty sure that the ACA passed before Scott Brown took office, which as I remeber it was the end of his Super Majority. But even if I’m wrong, then why don’t they end the filibuster? If the Republicans are determined to be the obstructionist party, why aren’t the willing to limit their ability to obstruct? They’ve been willing to do it to get nominations through, so why won’t they do it to pass legislation?

            • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Yeah, again, he had 60 in the senate, a big majority in the house, and a huge mandate from the voters. If he couldn’t pass his legislation under those circumstances he wasn’t fit to lead.

      • CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        What more should Obama have done on the front of universal healthcare than to draft a universal healthcare plan and try to get Congress to pass it? Which is what he did. They didn’t have the votes and the president doesn’t write laws. They got healthcare reform as far as they could with a few asshole Democrats and a totally stonewalling GOP. Also how is that platform radically leftist

        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          He had huge majorities in both houses, and he had a 57% approval rating at the time. Had he wanted to, he could have twisted some arms and gotten the public option through. He just didn’t care. And as I said in another comment, I was being a little hyperbolic with, “radical leftist,” but he ran farther left than anyone in 20 or 30 years and governed center-left to center-right.

          • CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Ah, so you’re another person speaking from ignorance with great confidence. In order for major healthcare reform to pass, it had to overcome a Senate filibuster. That requires 60 votes, and the Senate had exactly 60 non-GOP votes for all of 2 months and some change in 2009. And one of those 60 Senators (who later left the Democratic Party) wouldn’t even support the public option on the ACA. They were barely able to get the ACA voted for before Ted Kennedy kicked the bucket and they lost vote 60. They then had to use the bill they did manage to pass along with reconciliation to get the ACA signed into law. It was by the skin of their teeth.

            But based on your confident ignorance I’m sure you’ll just give some excuse and completely gloss over or ignore the fact that you are just factually wrong about the specifics of your criticism.

            He had huge majorities in both houses, and he had a 57% approval rating at the time. Had he wanted to, he could have twisted some arms and gotten the public option through.

            Ignorant bullshit!

            • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              I wish I could find the tweet to credit the guy, but someone once said something to the effect of, :“The number of Democrats needed to do anything is N+1, where N is number number of Democrats currently in office.” 50 votes in the Senate? Well, nothing can get done because of Joe Manchin. Need one more. 60 votes on the senate? Well, that’s barely a super-majority, need one more. Oh, Ted Kennedy died! Need one more so we can have a super-majority again! Could the Democrats eliminate the filibuster? Don’t think about it! Elect one more Democrat.

              You can call me ignorant all you want (I’m not by the way, I lived in MA at the time, I remember Scott Browns election better than you), but at the end of the day, these are just more excuses. Two houses, a President with a strong mandate, and a year of filibuster proof majority, and they couldn’t pass their own agenda. Either it wasn’t important to them or the party isn’t fit to govern.

                • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  LOL, wait, do you think the thing I cited is supposed to be a fact? You get that it was a joke, right? I’m trying to credit a guy who made a good joke about how Democrats always have an excuse not to do anything. Bro really thought it was a real mathematical formula 💀