It’s weird to me the level of deranged guilt her diary entries show.
We are responsible for our actions. I just wonder wtf was going on in her head that allowed her to keep doing it. She hated herself for it. Like a lot.
That’s the sort of evil I understand and can cope with. There is something wrong with her we don’t have the capacity to understand. Some chemical imbalance or growth pushing on her brain in a certain area.
It’s the people with nothing wrong with them but allow evil to happen like the hospital administrators that gets me.
Sadly, we don’t understand the brain yet. Otherwise perhaps certain things could be visible. I know that there is some research how activity patterns in brains of “psychopaths” difffer from other people. But it is all still on shaky grounds.
Yes, but it’s difficult to access. You need to want to get the care and actively campaign to be referred.
And that’s the “easy” things like anxiety or garden variety depression.
As soon as it gets complicated it’s a whole other story.
If she never tried to seek it out, then it doesn’t even matter as it appears she didn’t give off any “I murder babies” vibes to the extent that the investigation was delayed beyond a reasonable length of time because she was not suspected of such a thing.
Not to mention, if she was diagnosed with something severe, she would probably lose her job if not her entire career. A lot of people avoid seeking help for that reason.
Right, but she was compulsively murdering babies in the hospital. Can we all agree that she shouldn’t have had a job as a nurse in a NICU? That doesn’t feel like a statement with room for debate.
But… The comment is about why the murderer perhaps didn’t seek mental health. Because she didn’t want to lose her job. Who is saying that this was a good job for her to have?!
The other dumb fucks pushing the issue for whatever reason. I’m trying to figure out why it’s so important for them for everyone else to submit to their opinion that the murderer was mentally ill. What difference would it even make? She’d be a threat to the community regardless and so her imprisonment or execution would be justified whether she was mentally ill or not, so what’s the deal, I wonder?
So a baby murderer should have been allowed to keep her job and continue to put innocent lives in danger because you 1) baselessly think she’s mentally ill, and 2) think that a condition as extreme as you’re implying shouldn’t be regarded with consequence.
Real talk though, you can’t punish thought crimes.
Who TF dreams of crashing planes that does not fly planes? The incidence of plane-crash-dreamers is most certainly highly concentrated amongst pilots.
As are those who dream of killing babies concentrated around those who spend time around them.
Most of us use our brains to filter out things that we don’t want to come to actualization. But the bad thoughts are in there. 94% of us will experience intrusive thoughts at some point in our lives. All to jail?
And yet you think people should have their guns taken away for their thoughts or their words, so what makes you think you’re any better?
But the bad thoughts are in there. 94% of us will experience intrusive thoughts at some point in our lives. All to jail?
Imagine treating intrusive thoughts and killing babies as somehow equivalent. And that psychologists aren’t trained to know the difference and who to flag, and who not to. At least that’s what you’d say when pushing for red flag laws.
Or like get it solved before it becomes a problem? And have a professional medical opinion reccomend if you should work somewhere to not based on a risk assessment, not just a blanket statement
Ok, but the alternative is knowing a nurse directly in charge of infants wants to murder them and still letting her go into work. You’re basically an accomplice at that point.
Every mental health professional I have seen over the years is a mandatory reporter (in the US). Meaning they stated to me, upfront… if you have thoughts of hurting others OR yourself that WILL be reported. I didn’t have those thoughts so I probably put that out of my mind rather quickly.
But after reading these comments, and the articles I can see both sides of the argument. Those suffering from these thoughts may well feel scared to admit them knowing they would have consequences for their jobs/ or legal trouble from admitting them. I’ve no idea who they would be “reporting” it to. I assume the mental health worker would attempt to send the individual to a psychiatric hospital so they can get help .
Isn’t there protections for that though? That may fall under some medical status protection. Also when diagnosed you also get medicine which may help your brain balance.
It’s so hard, because those families have it so amazingly awful but I can’t imagine her being a sane person and doing what she did. She shouldn’t be on the street and she needed help a long time ago.
You may have had a different experience than I had, but in my local authority area, access beyond your GP is very difficult. The list is so long they try to avoid referrals, and if you’re unwell the ability to advocate for yourself is diminished.
Some would rather chuck a Prozac at you and hope that’ll fix it.
It’s interesting to me just how rare the underlying mental disorder has to be. Millions of people have mental health issues too but aren’t committing unspeakably vile acts. The incidence rate has to be 1 in several hundred million births.
My other thought is that mental health played a role but isn’t the underlying cause, since mental health problems generally don’t drive people to do this. That said, with the complexities of genetics and epigenetics, it’s perfectly possible it could happen.
That’s because the mental health excuse is just that: an excuse. They don’t actually have the evidence to back up the notion that she’s mentally ill other than her diary entries. Those entries could have been forged for all they know.
They not only undermine the very real damage that woman caused by using mental health as a cynical attempt to try to give her an out, they also are being extremely ableist. Committing egregious crimes != mental illness and for them to draw that equivalency caters to the stereotype that mentally ill people are dangerous.
These are people who know that and who would call others out for being ableist, yet do so freely in threads like this without consequence or a second’s thought from anyone else. Ask yourself why that is.
Aye. Not to mention, there’s a very distinct possibility that the diary entries are true, but are a result of the evil acts. I think it’s possible for someone to fall into depression and suicidal ideation after commiting truly heinous acts. We don’t have any indication what the causation is here.
It’s foolish to think that everyone who does evil just twirls a mustache and thrives on it. I’m guessing that most people who do something like this end up with mental illness or more severe mental illness as a result. It’s far more likely to me that these people are tortured and guilt ridden, evil souls than unrepentantly evil.
Anyhow – The first time I really had my eyes opened to how offensive this sort of language is was actually from David Harbour. As someone with mental illness, it really resonated when he pointed out that labeling mass shooters as simply mentally ill was a disservice to the millions of people who struggle with depression and anxiety and etc and it was incredibly stigmatizing. I’ve tried to be cognizant of that ever since, and the language around this story set off alarm bells for me.
You’d have to look at what she got out of it emotionally. Other hospital killers did it for a combination of “They were a burden”, “I was putting them out of their misery” and a sense of godlike power of life and death. Some started doing it for seeming mercy reasons but got so comfortable with doing it that they started killing patients because they annoyed them.
She got something out of it though. No one was forcing her to do it so regardless of her entries at the moment of choice she wanted to do it. She may have felt regret or self-hate after the fact but it is clear that those feelings eventually passed.
Regret or self-hate can just as well turn into driving factors to continue doing harm to others. When you are mentally ill, logic starts completely bending and finally making a 180 degrees turn from normal
I don’t think it’s possible to really understand a person that is that level of abnormal. Or rather, when you have empathy in a somewhat normal range, I think it’s really hard to understand how not having empathy works.
It’s weird to me the level of deranged guilt her diary entries show.
We are responsible for our actions. I just wonder wtf was going on in her head that allowed her to keep doing it. She hated herself for it. Like a lot.
That’s the sort of evil I understand and can cope with. There is something wrong with her we don’t have the capacity to understand. Some chemical imbalance or growth pushing on her brain in a certain area.
It’s the people with nothing wrong with them but allow evil to happen like the hospital administrators that gets me.
A lot of time there is nothing visibly wrong with them and their background doesn’t explain it
Sadly, we don’t understand the brain yet. Otherwise perhaps certain things could be visible. I know that there is some research how activity patterns in brains of “psychopaths” difffer from other people. But it is all still on shaky grounds.
This is a mental health issue, do they have free mental health care in the uk?
Yes, but it’s difficult to access. You need to want to get the care and actively campaign to be referred.
And that’s the “easy” things like anxiety or garden variety depression.
As soon as it gets complicated it’s a whole other story.
If she never tried to seek it out, then it doesn’t even matter as it appears she didn’t give off any “I murder babies” vibes to the extent that the investigation was delayed beyond a reasonable length of time because she was not suspected of such a thing.
Not to mention, if she was diagnosed with something severe, she would probably lose her job if not her entire career. A lot of people avoid seeking help for that reason.
Well, it turns out that you will also lose your job if you are caught murdering babies.
Ok, but she shouldn’t have had her job.
Easy to say from where we sit. Harder when that job is what’s keeping a roof over your head and food on your table.
Right, but she was compulsively murdering babies in the hospital. Can we all agree that she shouldn’t have had a job as a nurse in a NICU? That doesn’t feel like a statement with room for debate.
But… The comment is about why the murderer perhaps didn’t seek mental health. Because she didn’t want to lose her job. Who is saying that this was a good job for her to have?!
The other dumb fucks pushing the issue for whatever reason. I’m trying to figure out why it’s so important for them for everyone else to submit to their opinion that the murderer was mentally ill. What difference would it even make? She’d be a threat to the community regardless and so her imprisonment or execution would be justified whether she was mentally ill or not, so what’s the deal, I wonder?
Funniest joke we heard all day
So a baby murderer should have been allowed to keep her job and continue to put innocent lives in danger because you 1) baselessly think she’s mentally ill, and 2) think that a condition as extreme as you’re implying shouldn’t be regarded with consequence.
I never said that she should be allowed to keep her job.
You wouldn’t say the quiet part out loud.
Of course not, but that’s not looking at it from the perspective of her mental illness.
From her point of view, keeping her job was likely a high priority.
So weird that private medical info is only like sorta private except if they wanna use it
I mean, on the one hand I agree.
On the other hand, if you dream of murdering babies or crashing planes, perhaps the hospital or airline you work for should be informed.
Real talk though, you can’t punish thought crimes.
Who TF dreams of crashing planes that does not fly planes? The incidence of plane-crash-dreamers is most certainly highly concentrated amongst pilots.
As are those who dream of killing babies concentrated around those who spend time around them.
Most of us use our brains to filter out things that we don’t want to come to actualization. But the bad thoughts are in there. 94% of us will experience intrusive thoughts at some point in our lives. All to jail?
And yet you think people should have their guns taken away for their thoughts or their words, so what makes you think you’re any better?
Imagine treating intrusive thoughts and killing babies as somehow equivalent. And that psychologists aren’t trained to know the difference and who to flag, and who not to. At least that’s what you’d say when pushing for red flag laws.
Or like get it solved before it becomes a problem? And have a professional medical opinion reccomend if you should work somewhere to not based on a risk assessment, not just a blanket statement
And that attitude is why they don’t seek help
Ok, but the alternative is knowing a nurse directly in charge of infants wants to murder them and still letting her go into work. You’re basically an accomplice at that point.
Every mental health professional I have seen over the years is a mandatory reporter (in the US). Meaning they stated to me, upfront… if you have thoughts of hurting others OR yourself that WILL be reported. I didn’t have those thoughts so I probably put that out of my mind rather quickly.
But after reading these comments, and the articles I can see both sides of the argument. Those suffering from these thoughts may well feel scared to admit them knowing they would have consequences for their jobs/ or legal trouble from admitting them. I’ve no idea who they would be “reporting” it to. I assume the mental health worker would attempt to send the individual to a psychiatric hospital so they can get help .
Isn’t there protections for that though? That may fall under some medical status protection. Also when diagnosed you also get medicine which may help your brain balance.
Not the right time. Not the right place.
This woman murdered a lot of babies. Your comment is wildly inappropriate.
It’s so hard, because those families have it so amazingly awful but I can’t imagine her being a sane person and doing what she did. She shouldn’t be on the street and she needed help a long time ago.
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Nah, not self defense.
That would not be murder, then. Murder requires premeditation.
Premeditation is only required for first-degree murder.
Depends on the jurisdiction. Some places call homicide without premeditation “manslaughter”. Colloquially, murder has intent.
All murder is homicide, but not all homicide is murder.
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You may have had a different experience than I had, but in my local authority area, access beyond your GP is very difficult. The list is so long they try to avoid referrals, and if you’re unwell the ability to advocate for yourself is diminished.
Some would rather chuck a Prozac at you and hope that’ll fix it.
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There’s a big fucking difference between “i hate myself and want to die” and “might murder a half dozen babies this month”.
I think you might be asking a bit much of public mental health care, yeah?
It’s interesting to me just how rare the underlying mental disorder has to be. Millions of people have mental health issues too but aren’t committing unspeakably vile acts. The incidence rate has to be 1 in several hundred million births.
My other thought is that mental health played a role but isn’t the underlying cause, since mental health problems generally don’t drive people to do this. That said, with the complexities of genetics and epigenetics, it’s perfectly possible it could happen.
That’s because the mental health excuse is just that: an excuse. They don’t actually have the evidence to back up the notion that she’s mentally ill other than her diary entries. Those entries could have been forged for all they know.
They not only undermine the very real damage that woman caused by using mental health as a cynical attempt to try to give her an out, they also are being extremely ableist. Committing egregious crimes != mental illness and for them to draw that equivalency caters to the stereotype that mentally ill people are dangerous.
These are people who know that and who would call others out for being ableist, yet do so freely in threads like this without consequence or a second’s thought from anyone else. Ask yourself why that is.
Aye. Not to mention, there’s a very distinct possibility that the diary entries are true, but are a result of the evil acts. I think it’s possible for someone to fall into depression and suicidal ideation after commiting truly heinous acts. We don’t have any indication what the causation is here.
It’s foolish to think that everyone who does evil just twirls a mustache and thrives on it. I’m guessing that most people who do something like this end up with mental illness or more severe mental illness as a result. It’s far more likely to me that these people are tortured and guilt ridden, evil souls than unrepentantly evil.
Anyhow – The first time I really had my eyes opened to how offensive this sort of language is was actually from David Harbour. As someone with mental illness, it really resonated when he pointed out that labeling mass shooters as simply mentally ill was a disservice to the millions of people who struggle with depression and anxiety and etc and it was incredibly stigmatizing. I’ve tried to be cognizant of that ever since, and the language around this story set off alarm bells for me.
It’s clear everybody labeling her as mentally ill are doing it with an ulterior motive in mind. They’re almost as bad as she is.
Have you ever read The Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt?
I have not, but I’ve heard about it. I remember discussing it in world history class, just the concept.
No, not really. Both are psychiatric issues that need to be adressed.
She might think she didn’t have a problem and rationalized her actions
You’d have to look at what she got out of it emotionally. Other hospital killers did it for a combination of “They were a burden”, “I was putting them out of their misery” and a sense of godlike power of life and death. Some started doing it for seeming mercy reasons but got so comfortable with doing it that they started killing patients because they annoyed them.
I think you’re perhaps ignoring what I said about the content of her entries.
She suffered from her actions, emotionally. A lot. It’s quite clear she got nothing positive emotionally from it:
She got something out of it though. No one was forcing her to do it so regardless of her entries at the moment of choice she wanted to do it. She may have felt regret or self-hate after the fact but it is clear that those feelings eventually passed.
Regret or self-hate can just as well turn into driving factors to continue doing harm to others. When you are mentally ill, logic starts completely bending and finally making a 180 degrees turn from normal
There’s a whole lot of mental health issues in there.
I read the article and didn’t see any diary stuff. Do you have a link to it?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66104004
I don’t think it’s possible to really understand a person that is that level of abnormal. Or rather, when you have empathy in a somewhat normal range, I think it’s really hard to understand how not having empathy works.
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