Can someone please calmly explain how blocking a freeway across an ocean and a country on a different continent, is supposed to have any effect on a political issue in the middle east?
The idea is of course to bring attention to the fact that the US is funding Israel and giving them weapons. We also have some pull in the world and if we wanted to make it a thing, we could no doubt get all support for them in the area put on hold until they turned their shit around and stopped shooting/bombing anyone not in an IDF uniform.
Some pull? The US is funding this war. Israel is getting so much in free money from your taxes it should make you sick to your stomach
I said some pull because the UK and others would still need to get on board to do a blanket “cease-fire if you want aid” type statement. The US alone would only be a bump for them, but since they already have weapons they have bought from us for years, and aid coming in from other countries it would mean they wouldn’t need to pay any attention right away.
Choking out the sugar daddy money would be a massive swing for their budget that they could not afford. We give them a disgustingly disproportionate amount of aid money.
We also have some pull in the world
Which is currently being used to defend Israel. Can’t forget that part.
Because the US has a massive hand in that political issue in the middle east.
Well they are funding it with those protestors’ tax dollars
Oh yeah that too.
If I was American I would also be livid, like what the fuck are you guys doing
I mean, our tax dollars regularly go to heinous shit. Just the fact that like 50% of the US budget for living memory goes to the military means that you’re already starting deeply in the moral red.
Also the even more direct fact that Israel exists primarily to provide the US control over middle eastern oil. It’s an air base and port and provides air space through which to it can attack countries in the region. The constant war carried out by Israel against neighbors and within it’s own border destabalizes the region, making it easier to maintain US supported authoritarians.
Making life harder for people in cars is actually direct action against one of the root causes of the genocide. If you are in a car, you are complicit in genocide.
The US has no shortage of air bases in the Middle East. I find it difficult to believe Israel is of particular importance for that reason.
Not all anti-Israel commentary is antisemitic…but this sure as hell is.
Israel exists primarily to provide the US control over oil in the region? That’s its purpose for existing?
That argument shows complete disregard for the millions of Jews living there and the sequence of events that led to the need for a sovereign Jewish state in the first place
This seems like conflating purpose and reason, or current function.
Israel acts independently and has it’s own interests, which sometimes conflict with US interests, but often align. The US continues to prop Israel up because it needs access to the region.
Saying that the British and later Americans used Jews in the same way they used Scotch Irish or other marginalized people to colonize land they wanted to control by proxy is just a statement about history. It would be anti-semetic to suggest that Israel is somehow able to manipulate the US in to funding and arming it, rather than the relationship going primarily the opposite direction… As the US does with it’s many other proxies all over the world. It would be anti-semetic to suggest that Israel is somehow unique in being funded and supported by the US without being part of US global strategy. If we can accept that Israel is just another US proxy, then we ask, “given the local geopolitics, would Israel exist without US support?”
The history of persecution that allowed the British and Americans to exploit Jews to colonize Palestine isn’t what my post was about. I can understand the confusion. I assume it was in good faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
Not only Britian/the US but also the Nazis.
eat shit zionist
You’re straight up being antisemitic, equating an apartheid state to jewishness
…he said to the Jew. Op literally said the reason for Israel’s existence is oil interests.
Israel IS an apartheid state. Fuck the Israeli government and fuck Netenyahu especially. But that doesn’t make OP right
The reason for the creation of the Israeli state where it is was absolutely a political decision by the big Western powers (just like the repeated backing of Arab religious fanaticism over secular nationalism, btw). If the primary concern was providing a home for displaced Jews, land in Germany or the US would have made much more sense.
Jewish people can be antisemitic, lmao.
Equating zionism with jewishness is antisemitic
Some of my family didn’t survive a death camp to be used as a cudgel for a settler colonial project.
That argument shows complete disregard for the millions of Jews living there and the sequence of events that led to the need for a sovereign Jewish state in the first place
This is using the holocaust to justify Israel, it is ahistorical and disgusting.
Disagreeing with Israeli government atrocities? Must be the next fucking Hitler.
Israeli government can fuck off. They are horrific. Doesn’t mean Israel exists for the purpose of defending oil interests
According to the Havaara agreement it was initially to fill up plantations with workers who would pay tax to Germany too.
The people delayed in traffic on the other hand have zero influence. And more than likely are now massive Israel supporters due to being so pissed off by the protesters.
The economy being affected by the protest does, though. But setting aside the effectiveness of this method of protesting, lemme just quote MLK here.
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
This is your attitude now.
Except this quote could quite easily be used to justify absolutely any method of achieving a goal
I fail to see how MLKs words about white moderates pacifity can be applied to any method of acheiving a goal, its clearly about using direct action from the bottom up to achieve goals outside of the completely pacified and useless manner white ‘haves’ protest in historically, and the disdain they have for people actually trying to work outside of the ‘red vs blue’ dichatomy that does nothing for them.
I mean that’s if you take it as a one-paragraph Bible I guess.
Hit dogs holler
That’s how I always see it used
I too support genocide on the first inconvenience.
A lot of what these protests are trying to do is make it harder to ignore the reality of what is happening.
Now I agree these kind of protests don’t gain support. But they’re not trying to win support: they’re trying to make people aware of the problem as one that shosuldn’t be ignored.
The gamble is the cause is important enough and sympathetic enough that forcing people to be aware of it might get people towards political action. Even if it is just calling their representstive and going ‘wtf’.
For Americans every dollar we earn at work and every cent of tax we pay is a contributing factor in the conflict. But many are aware and think that is just fine. That is my personal concern with this protest: a lot of Americans are completely stoked about it and protesting just makes them shrug and go ‘purple hairs lol’.
Yes, they’re banking on the “no such thing as bad publicity” mantra and willing to risk jail time for that.
I think there are better ways of doing that, and I also don’t think this is the right time to do it. We’re not directly involved in that war, we’re merely selling weapons and keeping ships in the area to discourage the conflict from spreading. This isn’t like Vietnam where we’re literally the ones doing the killing.
I agree that Palestine should be free, but not with Hamas in control. Hamas is a terrorist org that networks with other terrorist orgs, and if they gain independence, they’ll continue terrorism. Fatah isn’t much better, but they seem quite a bit more reasonable and perhaps should be courted in negotiations for an independent Israel. Regardless, any independent Palestine must recognize Israel’s legitimacy or it’s not going to happen.
One could argue that blocking a freeway causes some negative economic impact. There are a number of US defense contractors who are profiting nicely from Israel’s recent military mobilization. This could be a message to the military industrial complex that “we the people” can grind things to a halt if we need to.
Personally I’m not a fan of blocking freeways as a form of protest, there’s just too much risk of affecting something time sensitive like an ambulance, organ transplant, etc. But I also empathize with the protestors, they probably feel strongly (as do I) that the violence needs to stop, and they feel helpless. There’s a lot of drive to make things right, and no real way to do that other than making a statement.
I see this argument every time a protest is held.
Can you name the number of times an emergency vehicle like an ambulance was blocked with a negative consequence from a blockade protest and divide it by the number of times such protests have occurred in the US?
I want to know what your threshold of “too much risk” means in terms of empirical data.
Oh, and then compare that to regular traffic!
I most certainly cannot. I wouldn’t even know where to start to find that data. I’m not sure it’s ever happened, nor if it’s something that would even be tracked/documented in any meaningful way. Tons of random things can delay something like an ambulance - car crashes, inclement weather, rush hour, etc.
My point was not that freeway-blocking protests are inherently bad, just that my feelings of the potential for negative impacts to innocent “bystanders” stress me out. I am not a fan of freeway-blocking protests for the same reason that I am not a fan of icy roads.
Now, is a freeway-blocking protest effective? Depends on how you quantify effectiveness. Was awareness raised? (Probably.) Were the lives of Gaza’s residents improved? (Probably not.) Would some other protest format have been more effective? (Probably not.) Are any protests really that effective when our government answers to billionaires instead of citizens? (Doubt it.) Does that mean we should lay down and accept mistreatment of our fellow humans? (Fuck no!)
So in theory you would have a much bigger problem with people who tailgate, exceed the speed limit, and fail to signal when changing lanes, or who fail to admit in people on lane merges, right? I’m pretty sure that, just at a raw numbers level, these kinds of things (along with the more obvious ones like texting while driving) cause far more traffic delays than the occasional protest.
Do you have a history of complaining about traffic violations in general, or is it just for people protesting for social justice?
Look, I know I’m slamming you and you don’t deserve it. I know it sounds like I’m attacking you personally, and that is not my intent. What I’m trying to draw attention to, however clumsily, is that this sort of narrative gets passed around very easily, even among the most well meaning of people. It’s regularly mentioned in the right wing media, and even in centrist media like the NYT. I’ve just worked on propaganda models for too long to not occasionally say something.
So in theory you would have a much bigger problem with people who tailgate, exceed the speed limit, and fail to signal when changing lanes, or who fail to admit in people on lane merges, right?
Fuck yes I do. (Can I say “fuck” in here?) Driving is dangerous, and people don’t take it seriously enough. Forget traffic delays, people die on the roads every single day. Heck, I wonder if this freeway shutdown could’ve actually saved lives.
Do you have a history of complaining about traffic violations in general, or is it just for people protesting for social justice?
The former, in multitudes. My partner told me that I’m not allowed to comment on other peoples’ driving around her anymore because it got annoying. I also have a history of complaining about how car-centric our society is in general, but that’s a topic for another day.
I know it sounds like I’m attacking you personally, and that is not my intent.
Thank you for that last paragraph, because I was about to throw myself a pity party lol. I think you raise an excellent point, and this type of “what-if-ism” is dangerous because it’s a distraction from the bigger issue at best, and demonizes social justice movements at worst. Definitely something I’ll keep in mind in the future.
So your numerator is 1. What’s your denominator? Let’s call it the number of street blocking protests in the last ten years.
In addition, the article doesn’t mention any ill effects coming from the delay, so we should probably be using a weighted function for this to see when it had an actual medical consequence.
Yeah, I think the fact that highway blockages are viewed so divisively only points to how effective they are. They have economic impact and are hugely visible – I think they’re one of the most effective non-violent direct action tactics available, though the participants should prepare to have the book thrown at them.
I think they should be treated as harshly as police who harass and assault people - there should be an internal investigation by other protestors, and if suspicion is found they should be forced to go on leave from work with full pay until the investigation concludes they were only doing what they were trained to do.
While people might be inconvienced by these protests remember how inconvienced the people being genocided by american bombs are currently being
FWIW, this is one of the most common forms of protest in Seattle since BLM. It’s not necessarily newsworthy to us locals! And yes, to confirm, most people in the city get pretty annoyed with protestors when it happens. A lot of people late to work, missing medical appointments, stranded with kids in the car, etc.
Hey guys, another local checking in to say protest is cool and effective protest is even cooler!
You might even say that people being late to work is exactly the economic impact that such a protest is designed to create.
Eh we did it back protesting invading Iraq. Didn’t do anything then.
But Seattle wasn’t Amazon back then.
No, we didn’t stop the war. I marched with 300k people in Washington (a lot of veterans) and we still didn’t stop the war. But I think the widespread and global protests of the Iraq war made it clear that the US was going to wage war despite its unpopularity, evidence, allies backing out, etc. A similar thing appears to be happening now with the backlash to Israel’s Hamas response.
Here’s a good column about what those protests writ large “accomplished.” https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/20-year-anniversary-of-iraq-war-protests
People who work on ambulances love when protestors close roads like this.
Ambulances have dispatch to warn and redirect them, and sirens to force their way down the shoulder to an exit. Effective protest has to have an effect.
Blocking roads is not an effective protest, and rerouting ambulances is not as simple as you make it sound. I used to work dispatch, I would know.
“blocking roads is not an effective protest” - source unknown
damn i should work in Seattle so i can use this as an excuse to get out of work
Last time I was held up by these people, I was on my way to try to pick up my dog’s cancer medication. So no, I don’t sympathize with them.
My dog’s cancer medication is more important than the wars in the Middle East, too
“Only one thing can ever matter at a time”.
Can’t do anything meaningful about a hugely complex situation? Stand in a road and stop people getting their dogs cancer medication, that’ll make you feel better
I see you flunked history class, odd thing to brag about
Will that’s the point of protests to remind people like you that there are a genocide happening and you government is supporting it.
It’s all performative. Everybody knows what’s happening there. They didn’t bring attention to the genocide; they brought attention to themselves.
That’s the point of protests to remind politician that if they dont hear the demands they will lose votes.
In a society where a huge portion of us are on the cusp of homelessness any threat to your livelihood seems like a threat on your life. I dont agree with it but I totally understand why some people run these protesters over. Last time I heard about one of these they were blocking a mother trying to get her kid to an ER in London. There is an older video of a guy begging them to move so he doesn’t lose his job and go back to prison (part of his parole). Threatening peoples livelihoods to make them agree with your politics sounds a lot like terrorism and I absolutely hate these kinds of protests. They could at least leave one lane open so people are slowed and see your message still but they dont. Also how privileged are these people that they can do this and dont have to go work instead? Must be really nice to have enough that you dont have to worry about making rent this month or feeding your children
a society where a huge portion of us are on the cusp of homelessness any threat to your livelihood seems like a threat on your life
Land of the free…
Threatening peoples livelihood… sounds a lot like terrorism
It absolutely does.
I hope these protesters are jailed, because this nonsense is a violation of a whole host of social norms, and we have laws against it for good reason. I don’t think they would be charged with terrorism though unless they threaten to keep doing it to make a political point. But jail time should absolutely be on the table.
That said, I agree that Palestine should be independent. However, this stunt does not make me sympathetic to their cause, and I’ll ignore their entire platform and make my own decisions. If they protested in front of symbolic institutions (say, the capitol in Olympia, or at Seattle Center in front of the Space Needle), I would be more sympathetic. But screw these people and I hope they get what’s coming to them.
That said, this could be a good time to discuss mass transit. If transit were better in the region, this wouldn’t be nearly as impactful. Seattle doesn’t have many good options to get to and through the city, so moving as much traffic off it as possible has a ton of value.
don’t have to go to work
Paid and unpaid time off are a thing.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Additional demonstrators on a nearby overpass cheered in support of the blockade, which began around 1:15 p.m., the Seattle Times reported.
The state transportation department said on the social media platform X that traffic at one point was backed up more than 6 miles (9.7 kilometers), and the agency asked drivers to use alternate routes.
Stormy weather, including hail, moved through the area, and protesters left the freeway around 4:45 p.m., according to the Times.
Trooper Rick Johnson with the Washington State Patrol said via X that while people had abandoned the freeway, 12 vehicles were left behind.
Since then the Health Ministry in Hamas-run Gaza said Saturday a total of 22,722 Palestinians have been killed in Israel’s subsequent assault.
Still, international criticism of Israel’s conduct has grown because of the rising civilian death toll.
The original article contains 264 words, the summary contains 135 words. Saved 49%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Welp, that oughta solve it. GG guys.
It doesn’t!
Can someone please calmly explain how blocking a freeway across an ocean and a country on a different continent, is supposed to have any effect on a political issue in the middle east?
Well, it makes me aware of it, and want to do something about it. So, I’m going to ask my state representatives to increase the penalties for jaywalking, and expand use-of-force laws by declaring that reasonable vehicular force is justified against those deliberately and notoriously impeding traffic.
I assume the protesters are playing some sort of 5D chess, and understand how broader jaywalking and vehicular force laws will bring peace to the Middle East. I certainly don’t know, but I don’t really need to know. I’m happy to do my part to help them with their plan.
Whenever I read comments like this, Im reminded of conversations with non americans, who dont understand why americans are so eagerly bloodthirsty and excited to try and kill their own neighbors for the smallest inconveniences.
I bet you threaten people in the mcdonalds line for taking too long to get their wallet out of their pocket, ey?
Don’t lump me in with that guy
