Update: In light of the programming.dev update here https://programming.dev/post/8399272, the defederation is no longer going ahead.
However, something more needs to be said. Even here on Blahaj, some of our users took issue with the choice to defederate over this issue.
So I would like to give some background and context.
Blahaj Zone exists, because both Kaity and I left mainstream social media to escape transphobia. Reddit, with its lackluster approach to fighting transphobia, and twitter, with its outright celebration of transphobia pushed us here, to the fediverse, and to create Blahaj Zone and Blahaj Lemmy.
To that end, we will continue to treat transphobia seriously. Our goal is to create a space where gender diverse folk can exist and let our defenses down a little, where we don’t have to worry about getting dragged in to an argument with a transphobe, or a bad faith actor “just asking questions”.
If you are looking for a more reddit like experience, where in the interest of increased engagement, we let low level transphobia slide, and push responsibility for dealing with it on to community mods and individual users, then you will likely not be happy with blahaj going forward. If you choose to stay here, understand that we may defederate again in the future over similar issues.
The choice is yours.
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It has recently been brought to my attention that the lead admin of programming.dev is engaging in ongoing transphobia.
You can see the conversation in question here https://programming.dev/comment/6131539
For that reason we will be defederating from programming.dev in 48 hours.
There are only three communities on that instance used by small number of our users, so this won’t have a big impact, but if you are one of those users, you will need to use an alt account on another instance if you wish to access the communities.
I love you all and I’m obviously against transphobia or any kind of bigotry, but this is probably where I leave this instance.
The action is Pretty blown out of proportion when we are honest…
Right? The admin here sees hexbears engaging in their typical bad faith spam-bullying tactics against someone who, unless there’s something really bad in that deleted comment, doesn’t seem to actually be a transphobe, for the crime of enjoying a popular mainstream video game, and the admin decides to defederate the victim of the bullying.
Yeah that game brings out the worst in the “woke” people. I haven’t played it, but its definitely good from all the reviews and this whole dogfighting behavior just harms the Trans people and their “allies” and makes them seem unreasonable and annoying, wich isn’t doing them good in a rightful fight against discrimination.
To be fair, programming.dev is moderated pretty badly. This is looks like a slap fight that escalated beyond what is reasonable, but it’s a good indicator of how respectfully people over there are treated. That is, not at all.
I don’t know how fair that is, because things got just as bad over here when we were federated with Hexbear. They’re really active and really argumentative, so slap fights will happen and be hard to moderate.
Maybe things are bad in general over there, but this seems like a pretty poor indicator imo. It’s hard to have a respectful discussion when you’re being dogpiled by Hexbear users.
I’m not subscribed to any programming.dev communities, but I’ve seen programming.dev names pop up quite a bit in threads and they’ve been nothing but respectful.
I’m just sitting here really confused at the choice to defederate based on a single chat.
Most folks at programming.dev, myself included, are there because it’s related to their profession. That’s what drew us there.
It baffles me to think that the entire instance has been judged and deemed unworthy because of a single comment chain that had disagreements.
You can block users you don’t want to interact with. Some instances breed a potentially nasty sentiment or attitude, and when there are too many users from that instance to block, that’s when I’d consider defederation. But a single conversation thread, involving a single person?
I’ve got no say in how another instance is ran. Just makes me a little sad about a much more fragmented future of Lemmy.
Fellow programming.dev user here,
I think it’s worth checking out her comments here. I don’t think you understand why Ada made the decision. The decision is not about deeming our instance unworthy. It is about not wanting to be federated with instances with transphobic admins. It’s very different than somethingike thinking everyone on our instance is transphobic.
I haven’t seen the removed comments so I can’t judge for myself whether they’re transphobic (and it’s not relevant to the talk you and I are having).
I might be missing something, but I believe an admin being potentially transphobic only matters if they do not moderate transphobic content that leaks out to other instances. I don’t think I’ve seen transphobic content leak out of programming.dev.
That said, I’ve read some of Adas comments on the intention behind defederation, and blahaj. What I’ve learned is that Blahaj wans set up as a safe space, so 0 tolerance is understandable, and is well within their rights to establish and enforce.
Coming from someone who is just looking to Lemmy as a reddit alternative, it’s simultaneously cool that communities can do this, and a little unfortunate that with Lemmy being as small as it is (compared to reddit), we are defederating over single comment threads. Again, blahaj was intended to be a safe space and has no obligation to be a part of the “reddit replacement” I’m looking for, so if they deem it necessary then good on them.
Agreed. I hope our two instances can find a way to stay federated but I hold no anger if we can’t.
Hey im the admin mainly in charge of the community over on programming.dev (+ the other lead admin). Can you point out a case of this happening and I can see if I need to handle it
We moderate things in our instance if its reported but if its not reported it cant really be found easily
(also for the main post, im chatting with your admin about it)
It would be nice not having to defederate. The users on programming.dev are pretty nice from what I’ve seen.
If we do defederate, which would be a massive shame, I’m willing to act like a massive dick to make you feel better about the whole thing
Reminder that federation is directional. This post is about them defederating with us.
In either direction, it’s a severing of trust and degradation of user experience. That’s what I want to avoid. When I say “we defederate” I mean “our two instances become not mutually federated,” not “we [programming.dev] choose to defederate [from blahaj].”
I gotcha, just letting you know there’s a technical difference. 😎👍
I left a while ago but I am disappointed to the degree that people over here are willing to carry water for hexbear. They absolutely cannot be trusted to be good faith actors.
Yeah I’m feeling the same way TBH
I’ve just got to find a new one that fits for me
It’s the best feature of the Fediverse - you have so many options! If one instance doesn’t work for you, there WILL be one that agrees with you better.
I’m not LGBT or Q but this is my instance because I whole heartedly support people and I appreciate that mods here do their best to separate from pure human garbage while retaining connection with like and different minded groups.
It’s a great feature, but the “inter-instance politics” of it are exhausting. I’m a programmer by trade and by hobby so when creating my account I went with “the programming instance.” Now I’m hearing that because of a thread on a different instance (lemmy.ml) this instance is defederating with programming.dev.
I like browsing the communities here, I hadn’t seen the original post on the other instance before this thread, and if I had missed this thread this whole instance would just disappear seemingly randomly.
I get that you can migrate to another instance, but given how this is going how can I be sure this won’t happen again and I’d lose access to instances out of nowhere? It seems unsustainable to constantly check other instances for inter-instance conflicts just to see the communities I like
I agree with separating from different minded groups, but these are the words of one person who set up the instance who definitely doesn’t speak for the “programming group.” I feel like action could be taken against the individual without basically punishing the entire instance
It gets really tiresome to have to hop instances multiple times, though…There’s scripts you can run for it but an official way to migrate would be nice.
As someone who only recently migrated to programing.dev, it feels like I’m building on shifting sand.