- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Note:
I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!
If anyone is still wondering why Hamas and other resistance factions are fighting, this is what happens when the IDF wins.
Fuck Hamas. They are not “resisting”, they killed innocent civilians, women and children, and don’t give a flying fuck about the Palestinian civilians either (cf Moussa Abu Marzouk’s declaration that they are not responsible for defending the civilians in Gaza). They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin. Fuck Hamas as much as the Likud and the ultranationalist Israeli right to the seventh pit of hell.
on the radio I heard two scholars discussing recent polls that reveal a surprisingly strong level of support for Hamas among gazans even now, despite the level of backlash that has resulted. when asked why, they said that Palestinians have long given up any hope that negotiations could achieve their goal of freedom and independence. they said that since negotiating has clearly failed for decades, Palestinians feel that the only remaining option Israel has left them is aggression and violence. and Hamas is the leadership that is willing to resort to violence.
while I certainly feel awful about any innocent Israelis getting caught up in the original attack, I can’t help but feel like Israel has done this to themselves. they have caged an entire group like wild animals for decades and somehow have the audacity to blame them for lashing out.
but let’s be honest here. we have all heard these points and most of us have already made up our minds about it.
That’s what trauma does to you. Initially, support for Hamas had dwindled before October 7th, but after you literally drop bombs and bombs on people until they have to carry whatever is left of their children in blankets and plastic bags, well…
It’s hard to not let your emotions take over, but Hamas only exists because of the hatred of Israel.
Hamas exists because Israel doesn’t want Palestines to exist.
Terrorist organisation typically don’t continue to exist for extended periods of time without external assistance.
This is silly, not mentioning Iran as the actual people training and funding Hamas is either very deceptive or evidence you have no idea about anything happening in the middle East.
Also acting like Hamas are the only terrorist organisation in the middle East and a total novelty is absolutely absurd, when people call them freedom fighters without any reference to what they’re actually saying they’re fighting for is again totally deceptive or from a total lack of understanding - they don’t want freedom they want a theocratic dictatorship and death to all non Muslims.
That’s not too say everything Israel have done of good or moral but painting Hamas as innocent people just fighting for their freedom is laughable
Oh blah blah blah, this whole situation is alot simpler that Israeli defence Muppets like.
Israel is NOT a poor developing nation. Their military is on par with the UK. Their economy is doing fantastic. Quality of life in Israel is growing.
Israel wether you like it or not are always going to be the bad guys in the situation simply because they should know better. They have been taunting, attacking and murdering Palestinians for 70 years. The only countries other than Israel that are to blame are the US and the UK.
So being successful when everyone is trying to kill you makes them bad but rich countries like Iran failing repeatedly to complete the genocides they fund makes them loveable roagues who can do no wrong?
You’ll excuse me if I don’t subscribe to your philosophy of life.
Because you’re acting like it’s an army Vs an army, it’s not it’s an army Vs civilians
No, it’s when you keep trying to slaughter Palestinians for colonial and racist reasons and succeeding at it continuously.
Israel is a country where Palestinians queue in cages and are strip searched only to be humiliated.
Fuck Israel today and every day until it stops what it’s doing.
That’s what I said:
Bastards killing civilians one direction. Bastards killing civilians in the other direction.
If the bastards could fucking kill the other bastards and not involve civilians, that’d be pretty swell. If the IDF and Hamas actually fight each other and no civilians are hurt, everyone wins.
When IDF wins? They could have done this years ago with Hamas started their raine of terror over Israel following Israel trying to do a good will gesture in Gaza. Instead Israel agreed to ceasefire after ceasfire that Hamas continously broke with thousands of rockets fired at civilians. This last massacre by Hamas was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back.
You know why Hamas are fighting? Because their goal is to murder every jew they can. They don’t want peace, they want blood.
For fucks sake, Hamas is not a “resistance faction” and pretty much nothing was happening until they decided to poke the bear. They’re a bunch of worthless shitstains who don’t give two shits about the welfare of Palestinians.
“Look what you made me do”
What do you think Israel should’ve done after Hamas killed over a thousand people?
Ended its genocide and recognized Palestine as a sovereign country.
That seems like a very unlikely response, doubt any country would accept anything right after an attack like that.
You asked what they should have done, and I answered.
And I replied to your answer
And that’s why terrorist groups work versus modern states. They can count on disproportionate response. Hamas support was lower before Oct 7 but thanks to Israel liquidation of 20k people, now they have staunch support.
Does that involve all Jewish people leaving Israel or are you talking about the two state solution which Israel has repeatedly tried to work towards and both the plo and now Hamas reject on principle?
Hamas explicitly calls for a two state solution while Isreal explicitly rejects it.
And no, Isreal has never once tried to work towards a two state solution, because that would mean unilaterally recognising Palestine as a sovereign state with all the rights afforded to a sovereign state under international law. At best it has offered suggested a bantustan, but for over a decade it hasn’t even done that.
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Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
Do you like this group of people? If yes, freedom fighters; if not, terrorists
Do you like this state? If yes, government; if not, regime.
I don’t like Hamas. They are nothing more than bigoted murderers. But they are created from a system of hate. This isn’t an argument of viewpoint. It’s just facts
Native American militias didn’t brutalise Native Americans, much unlike Hamas does to Palestinians.
This is simply not true. Plenty of natives fought against other natives, whether independently, or with US troops, or for bounties.
Those were generally clashes between different tribes. Hamas is doing internal political oppression, brutalising political opponents etc.
Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes. Even during colonial expansion. Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.
Irrelevant because Gaza is not different tribes, thus I ignored it. But I bet you felt smart typing that.
Quite an edgelord take but yes they’re oppressing Palestinians, and killed a lot of Israeli leftists, hippie Kibbutz type people actually helping people in Gaza, in their attacks, Kahanites certainly don’t mind that. I don’t think Israel was planning on Hamas having a shot at the Israeli-Saudi rapprochement, though.
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Is it possible for you to argue without analogies? They’re never a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand. All they do is serve to distract from the conversation by making people debate the accuracy of the analogy.
I bet you’d call the Viet Cong terrorists during the Vietnam war too lol.
This is similar to that in some regards too; similar guerilla tactics, and they’re also fighting to drive away an occupying force and reunify their country.
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is this the new line coming out from Israel? It’s not very good is it?
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No, this is what happens when you give them an excuse.
There is never an excuse for blatant warcrimes.
First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and I fully support Israel in removing it. It definitely is not a resistance group.
However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.
Executions ≠ shenanigans. Are you fucking kidding?
Edit: typo
Dang, so the IDF gets your blessing even though they’re killing 10x as many civilians as a terrorist organization?
Even though they’re killing more civilians than Russia?
Were you replying to a different post or something?
Wow it’s like you completely and utterly ignored his second paragraph entirely.
Those darn Israelis and their ethnic cleansing shenanigans.
Zionism is a mental illness at this point.
Based on your comment, can I ask what would be your solution the whole Palestine-Israel conflict?
Trials in the Hague followed by imprisonment of all those guilty of war crimes. At this point that Includes most IDF members, their leaders, and the government.
Actually bring consequences to bear and let other Israelis know that this isn’t acceptable. Israel also needs to be cut off from the teat of the American military industrial complex.
Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.
Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.
Basically the UN needs to do it’s job, but that needs America not to veto.
Explain to me how that works with Hamas, because I don’t think they give a fuck about either of those things. More troops on the ground?
Probably needs a UN peace keeping force.
…but Hamas is also a political entity and the government of Palestine. Sanctions would matter if Gaza wasn’t already blockaded by Israel.
A bi national state modelled on the EU. Palestinian state delineated by the 1967 borders coexisting with the Jewish state. Single market and freedom of movement for all citizens whether Israeli or Palestinian. That way settlers don’t have to be removed and Palestinians can work in the cities as they did before Oslo.
That’s actually reasonable. Pretty much I would like to see the same option
I’m not the person you’re talking to but as far as i can see the only way to go is one state solution.
Help me out here, because I don’t see that how that’s supposed to work with the whole “killing a bunch of each other” thing going on.
The constant attacks against Israel and it’s increasing isolation only probs Zionists right. Jews can only trust themselves for their own defense and need a state for that (that’s what Zionism is). People like you feed Zionism everyday.
You’re conflating Jews with an extremist ideology that can only seem to exist through apartheid.
Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
It’s time to put in a UN peacekeeping force and a transitional government for a single state solution. Israel has beyond lost it’s moral high ground and should be treated like any other colonial remnant in the post colonial world.
Ones terrorist group is another’s resistance heroes. Which is which very much depends on the side you’re sitting at.
Hamas is indeed a terror group and should be removed but it’s hard not to see your bias. In sheer numbers, the IDF has killed multiples of what Hamas killed, in cruelty they’re really the same, and Hamas has the “excuse” of 70 years or so of oppression, murder, theft, etc by the Israeli side, the IDF doesn’t have that excuse.
The IDF is a terrorist organisation too and the only difference is that the IDF is state sanctioned and managed, whereas Hamas is not.
You, however, call what is starting to look like a genocide “shenanigans” that should be better managed whereas you outright call Hamas a terrorist group. Bias much?
Hey don’t dare to call Hamas as cruel as the IDF. They don’t torture their hostages nor shoot children. Hamas is far more humane than the IDF.
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You can’t use that word!!! The Big Brains™ will tell you that unless Israel is targeting every single Palestinian on earth then it’s not genocide!
/Wrist
Get fucked shitbag
Haha murdering civilians is good!
Israel seems to think so
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
You mean like how Israel should stop supporting terrorists like Hamas then using them as an excuse to commit genocide?
Of course, Israel supporting Hamas was a dirty move and it was one of Israel biggest mistakes. There is no way to excuse that.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about though, this is an often repeated talking point which comes from pretty much nothing, do you have any evidence for it or did you half read a headline in a meme post without realising the argument being made is ‘by allowing aid into Gaza it’s proping up Hamas’ because that’s where that ‘funding Hamas’ line actually comes from.
Israel don’t let enough aid through and they’re the bad guys, they let aid through and they’re the bad guys - they don’t have a cease fire and they’re the bad guys, or they have a cease fire and fail to totally remove Hamas so again they’re the bad guys…
Iran funds Hamas and sturs up trouble as a way of maintaining support at home and due to their fanatical religious ideals -that bit isn’t even sightly complicated, you don’t need conspiracy theories
No sorry you’re right, starve and murder all Palestinians that will solve the problem.
That’s clearly not what I’m saying, I’m saying that supplying aid to Palestine is not the same as proping up Hamas so blaming Israel for their existence is absurd
They are are a resistance group, but that’s not really imoortant: I agree that Israel is justified in getting rid of them. What isn’t justified is almost everything they’ve done to achieve that aim.
They have nothing in common with a resistance group. They are just brutal terrorists who have been terrible both to Israel and Gaza, as well. Just look at how much money were they getting and see how it ended.
Israel has done war crimes, so it’s logical to condemn them for these actions. I believe they should have kept the approach from the beginning when they were precisely targeting the most dangerous buildings because Hamas was still a threat.
Exactly like the IRA which Britain called terrorists and many others called resistance fighters. It’s a matter of perspective.
If someone’s perspective is that Hamas are resistance fighters, then their perspective is just wrong.
Hamas have been leading Gaza for 18 years. They have done nothing good in that time. Whole Gaza is impoverished, conditions are terrible even when IDF don’t attack. In addition, Hamas leaders have share net worth of 11 billion US dollars and I am not even talking about how much money they get. Whilst leaders are extremely rich, their population is starving and is completely dependent on a country they are in a war with.
Apart from that, they have also been terrible to Israel because they launched multiple attacks against them.
So no, Hamas definitely are not freedom fighters but terrorists.
Lol. Just restating your assertion doesn’t make it true. The head of the Turkish state declared that Hamas are resistance fighters. Hamas are resistance fighters by name and are considered so by many in the middle east. The UNs Palestinian expert compared Hamas to the French resistance. You having really big feelings about the situation doesn’t change the facts - it’s ALWAYS the case that one person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Stomp your feet if it makes you feel better but the world will go on regardless
I definitely don’t have big feelings about this situation. I am just amazed by someone’s positions.
By your logic, we can fully justify that Hitler was a freedom fighter because the person who supports the Nazi dictator has just a different perspective. Facts, however, tell otherwise.
When there is given a substantial proof about something (whether it is Hamas being a terrorist group or about the fact that the Earth is round), people who oppose are just wrong (if they don’t provide a proof which makes “fact” incorrect). It’s dead simple.
When you come to a teacher with incorrectly solved equation, it won’t be you having a different perspective about mathematics than everyone else in the world, you will be just wrong.
Just like Erdogan is wrong right now. But I am not really surprised by that because he, just like Hamas, would love to see ME without Israel at all.
Whatevs. All you’re doing is just restating your assertion. Youre entitled to your wrong opinion but I’m not interested in hearing it. Good luck to you.