The general scholarly consensus is that he did in fact exist. The only thing really up for debate is what he did or didn’t do, and who he was or was not the son of.
The general scholarly consensus is that he did in fact exist. The only thing really up for debate is what he did or didn’t do, and who he was or was not the son of.
To say that a thing existed - oh, except all these other things attributed to the thing are just bullshit, so you can ignore them - really does preclude the actual existence of the thing. Nobody cares if Jesus of Nazareth, the prehistoric huckster but otherwise normal human “existed.” So did Rudy of Nazareth, but he was a used chariot salesman, and he didn’t get lionized into mythology.
I mean, there are probably at least dozens of people named “Jesus Christ” today. The name is only a fraction of the character… what he did or didn’t do is pretty damn important in the context of religious mythology. I don’t think anyone really cares if scholars agree that there was a dude named Jesus Christ in the timeframe / region of interest if he was just an average Joe. …or even a way-above-average Joe: his fame boils down to doing magic. Not tricks, but actual magic. So, what do scholars say about a guy named Jesus Christ who can make fish and bread appear out of thin air, perform alchemy on water to turn it into wine, or press the pause button on water displacement?
What is reasonably likely is that there was a person named Yeshwa ben Yosef, born a few years before 0CE, died somewhere around 30CE, who preached and started a Judaism-based cult and who might’ve been a carpenter. He most likely had a reputation for miracles, which is mentioned in non-Christian sources which have no reason to glorify him. (Do note that modern cult leaders and televangelists also often have such reputations.) He was also probably crucified, although probably not for the reasons given in the Bible.
Things like his conception without sex or him being a fish copying machine have no evidence. It’s not even sure if he claimed to be the son of God or the Messiah; apparently he did probably have an end-times cult and did probably assume that he’d get to run the world after divine rule is instituted globally.
So yeah, he probably was some dude who started a cult (which wasn’t even that unusual at the time), was good enough at preaching to get a major audience, and was probably executed because sooner important people considered him a political threat. His cult survived him and people started embellishing his life just a tiny little bit.
Afaik, scholars say, some dude named Jesus probably lived about 2000 years ago and did do some preaching and possibly was crucified.
There is of course no evidence of divine relations or acts of magic.
The evidence being him being mentioned briefly in non-christian (roman) writings of the time.
Yeah obviously this extremely important religious leader who was famously executed existed—that’s why we have exactly 0 written record from anyone who ever claimed to have met anyone who ever claimed to have met him. That’s why practically all the documentation of his life and deeds comes from decades after his high profile execution. Because he very definitely existed.
I don’t think Jesus would want to be associated with this dump.
Well, good, he won’t be as upset when he gets deported.
i don’t think jesus ever actually existed
Neither did Frodo Baggins, but he wouldn’t want to be associated with America either.
The general scholarly consensus is that he did in fact exist. The only thing really up for debate is what he did or didn’t do, and who he was or was not the son of.
To say that a thing existed - oh, except all these other things attributed to the thing are just bullshit, so you can ignore them - really does preclude the actual existence of the thing. Nobody cares if Jesus of Nazareth, the prehistoric huckster but otherwise normal human “existed.” So did Rudy of Nazareth, but he was a used chariot salesman, and he didn’t get lionized into mythology.
I mean, there are probably at least dozens of people named “Jesus Christ” today. The name is only a fraction of the character… what he did or didn’t do is pretty damn important in the context of religious mythology. I don’t think anyone really cares if scholars agree that there was a dude named Jesus Christ in the timeframe / region of interest if he was just an average Joe. …or even a way-above-average Joe: his fame boils down to doing magic. Not tricks, but actual magic. So, what do scholars say about a guy named Jesus Christ who can make fish and bread appear out of thin air, perform alchemy on water to turn it into wine, or press the pause button on water displacement?
Unlikely.
What is reasonably likely is that there was a person named Yeshwa ben Yosef, born a few years before 0CE, died somewhere around 30CE, who preached and started a Judaism-based cult and who might’ve been a carpenter. He most likely had a reputation for miracles, which is mentioned in non-Christian sources which have no reason to glorify him. (Do note that modern cult leaders and televangelists also often have such reputations.) He was also probably crucified, although probably not for the reasons given in the Bible.
Things like his conception without sex or him being a fish copying machine have no evidence. It’s not even sure if he claimed to be the son of God or the Messiah; apparently he did probably have an end-times cult and did probably assume that he’d get to run the world after divine rule is instituted globally.
So yeah, he probably was some dude who started a cult (which wasn’t even that unusual at the time), was good enough at preaching to get a major audience, and was probably executed because sooner important people considered him a political threat. His cult survived him and people started embellishing his life just a tiny little bit.
Afaik, scholars say, some dude named Jesus probably lived about 2000 years ago and did do some preaching and possibly was crucified. There is of course no evidence of divine relations or acts of magic. The evidence being him being mentioned briefly in non-christian (roman) writings of the time.
Yeah obviously this extremely important religious leader who was famously executed existed—that’s why we have exactly 0 written record from anyone who ever claimed to have met anyone who ever claimed to have met him. That’s why practically all the documentation of his life and deeds comes from decades after his high profile execution. Because he very definitely existed.
that’s not true
I don’t think Peter Pan or Luke Skywalker would want to be associated with him either