I sold my S&P 500 ETF’s back in 2016 after the election. I honestly thought the US economy was no longer a good long-term investment (I guess here 10 years later I was objectively wrong), but mostly because I didn’t like the direction the country was heading. Most people here saw his first term as a kind of satirical buffonery, kind of like a circus animal, that papers covered the same way you’d cover a kooky reality TV show. Everyone would kind of tune in (Or try to tune out), to find out what he’d do next.

I don’t know if I fully realized it at the time, but clearly he was surrounded by “handlers” during that first term, a few buffers here and there to prevent the ship from going completely off the rails. I remember many said at the time, coming up on Biden’s election, that we’d finally have an adult back in the white house and everything would go back to normal. This, I didn’t believe. To me, Trump is a symptom more than the disease itself, which lies with a subset of people (Not only americans I might add), who have a very particular view of the world.

There are many Trumps out there, and we see people like him come to power in many places. I’m reminded of Europe a hundred years ago, where people struggled. Nations with huge debts, political leaders who seemed to accomplish nothing, and pointless in-fighting between congressional members while the real people - workers - struggled with inflation, fear, and economic and cultural divide. It seems like a certain political environment starts brewing in these circumstances: People look back to how great they used to be.

And Germany, for instance, was an absolute powerhouse during the 17-1800’s, completely dominating all culture, science, and military in Europe. Even today we talk of Bach and Beethoven, we read Nietzsche and Kant, and so on. It’s not particularly odd that Germany wanted to return to such a time after the shadow of the first war, and practically felt cheated out of it since Hegel had all but promised that it was Germany’s time on the global stage. “Make Germany Great Again”.

And in Italy the sentiment mirrored it, as were true across the world, where select people found themselves sympathizing with the same sentiments. It is not a uniquely German, Italian, or American phenomenon - it seems to be rooted in the psychological makeup of human beings. When we struggle, and when times are hard, we become desperate. Political opinions drift toward these extremes, because the more desperate you are, the more change you want. And few people are more desperate than the young, already ideologically inclined, who walk the streets unable to find jobs due to economy, while forced to take care of family.

They start to rightly observe that their votes don’t seem to make much of a difference, that no matter what political message they send - nothing seems to change. The elite seems to laugh at them from tall buildings, regarding them as lazy, poor, and unintelligent. And therefore their votes and views grows more extreme, as the only people who seem to hear them, are the types who are mostly demagogues. I think all people who vote for demagogues have one thing in common: They are completely disillusioned with the existing system, and want someone to throw a wrench in it. It is no coincidence that Trump’s grassroots campaign picked up momentum on 4chan.

I’m not a conservative myself. But when I read Edmund Burke’s critique of the french revolution, I think he has a point in his critique of revolutions. Not only are governing bodies organically evolved and difficult to artificially devise in a power vacuum, when they are toppled everything also becomes extremely unpredictable. You may topple the tyrant king, but soon you have an even worse evil conqueror on your hands, because the underlying forces establishing the hierarchy are still in place.

I suppose the more marginalized, pressured, and disfranchised you are - the more absurd a reformist position is. “Do we really hope to change this heap of shit from the inside? Slowly? Are you kidding?”. But whatever is needed, does need to come at least somewhat organically because the underlying forces are still there. So if Trump is the symptom, then what is the disease?

  • Hanrahan@slrpnk.net
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    10 hours ago

    So if Trump is the symptom, then what is the disease?

    I’m not sure I understand your position, some self reflection about glass houses and throwing stones and fix Denmark ?

    Denmark is big on racism, cultural preservation (a dog whistle for racial purity) , they don’t like brown people asylum seekers or refugees , big on protecting its borders blah blah. In many ways the nation (perhaps not yiu on particular) is very similar to the current US conservative view, Denmark seems upset that their fascist adjacent “comrade” is now turning on them

    This seems more like a Leopards eatiing their face situation?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

    • fennesz12@feddit.dkOP
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      9 hours ago

      I don’t think you understood my post at all. I don’t think you know much about Denmark either, what the people of Denmark generally believe, or even about George Orwell since you decided to link his book in this context.

      Edit: Anyway, it wasn’t some grand political statement. It was generally just a rant about Trump, turned into some pointless uneducated musings about human psychology. Since it apparently isn’t obvious from my rant, I’ve never liked the man, but what I tried to explain is that I like even less what he reveals about human beings. Because there are lots of people around the world, who are ready to follow the exact same archetype.

  • FarrellPerks@feddit.uk
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    16 hours ago

    If trump is the symptom, then what is the disease?

    I honestly believe the answer to that is capitalism. It’s a failed experiment that time and time again causes what we’re experiencing today.

    Do I have a fool proof alternative? Absolutely not, but damn do we need one and soon.

    • Hanrahan@slrpnk.net
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      10 hours ago

      I honestly believe the answer to that is capitalism.

      I don’t agree, all hierarchical societies collapse from within; Egypt, Rome, Khmer, Inca, Greek, Roman, British, USSR, Babylonian and on amd on and we’re witnessing the collapse of the USA

      The issue isnt capatislim it’s inequality. If you have inequality you will fail, every… single … time. The ONLY societies who haven’t are equal ones. Eg the Australian Aboriginal societies lasted over 60,000 years, the African Bushman lasted 150,000 years. Their collapse only comes about from outside force changing how they lived If your metric is time, resilience and a livable biospbere, then these are breathtakingly successful societies.

      https://aeon.co/essays/why-inequality-bothers-people-more-than-poverty

      Most remarkably, his research revealed that the Ju/’hoansi managed this on the basis of little more than 15 hours’ work per week. On the strength of this finding, the anthropologist Marshall Sahlins in Stone Age Economics (1972) renamed hunter-gatherers ‘the original affluent society’.

      This research also revealed that the Ju/’hoansi were able to make a good living from a sparse environment because they cared little for private property and, above all, were ‘fiercely egalitarian’, as Lee put it. It showed that the Ju/’hoansi had no formalised leadership institutions, no formal hierarchies; men and women enjoyed equal decision-making powers; children played largely noncompetitive games in mixed age groups; and the elderly, while treated with great affection, were not afforded any special status or privileges. This research also demonstrated how the Ju/’hoansi’s ‘fierce egalitarianism’ underwrote their affluence. For it was their egalitarianism that ensured that no-one bothered accumulating wealth and simultaneously enabled limited resources to flow organically through communities,

      There are no solutions that don’t involve removal of inequality. Everything else is just kicking the can down the road.

      • fennesz12@feddit.dkOP
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        9 hours ago

        I don’t recall all of my history for these civilizations off the top of my head, but Egypt, Rome, USSR, and perhaps the others too, had some absolutely terrifying power dynamics by the end. So many assassinations, outright cruelty and sadism, and so on. Lots of really short power reigns ending in assassinations or burning cities. I think part of what makes these leadership hierarchies topple, is that you can’t trust anyone at any time for any reason, because no one follows established rules, and whoever can strategically outthink others, or win by strength, get to sit on top. Stalin was one paranaoid person, as was every single late stage roman emperor after Marcus Aurelius (Not counting his son).

        When you’re constantly fearing for your life, how can you not become tyrannical I guess?

    • cub Gucci@lemmy.today
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      14 hours ago

      I honestly believe the answer to that is capitalism.

      TBH Soviet Nomenclatura was no better in the late period.

    • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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      15 hours ago

      Capitalism, it any other system that concentrates wealth and therefore power, or power and therefore wealth.