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TLDR: A well funded and developed brainwashing machine vs the mind of an 18 year old will end in tragedy. The Israeli government is doing generational damage to its own people and this is just the beginning. There is no excuse for the genocide but there are reasons.
I had to serve 3 years in the IDF 2013-16. I spent a year trying to get out of it using medical issues but then the police showed up to our door. I spent 3 years fixing armored combat vehicles at an engine shop.
When you grow up in Israel you are surrounded by pro military and anti Palestinian/Arab propaganda. At 16 they call you in for a physical and that’s where the brainwashing really kicks in. The next two years of high school you’re thinking of finals and graduation, prom but also what unit you and your classmates could end up in. My school had a program where you spend time on a military base to “try it out”. They draft you at 18 years old, you’ve just graduated and you’ve received a letter from the government telling you what unit you’re in and when to report. You may hate the Israeli government you may think Palestinian should have rights but the social pressures of serving have been hammered into you for years. Now you’re on a bus taken to a remote military base where they put you through all the brainwashing and cult building tech they’ve perfected over the decades. You’re just a kid out of highschool already conditioned to follow authority and now they’re yelling at you to run, shoot and protect your new best friend you made in the army. They tell you that every Palestinian at the check point is a threat and show videos of Palestinian resistance to make sure you’re scared. You hear about a soldier who fell asleep on a bus and got stabbed in the neck by a Palestinian fighter. You hear about a police officer shot at a checkpoint.
These kids are committing war crimes while deep in a cult that tells them it was right. When they leave and see reality it will cause PTSD and suicide for those that can’t live with what they’ve done. The feeling when reality conflicts with your brainwashing hits hard.
Imagine looking back at your teenage years when you were an idiot by instead of cringe you recall shooting innocents that a system convinced you were out to kill you.
When I first drafted I was not aware of the Palestinian struggle but over my 3 years, even though I wasn’t in combat I started to realize who the bad guys were. I tried to transfer to the humanitarian arm of the IDF that allegedly does outreach to Palestinians but was denied due to my low physical score. If I had protested and dodged my draft it would have ruined my life, I did not live in a progressive town or household. To this day I don’t know any other pro Palestinian liberation people from my old social circles.
It is not a war, it is a genocide. The IDF target and shoot kids in the head. Knowing that your side does this would mess up most people.
People are human and naturally sociable. They created monsters out of their soldiers. Dissonance gonna cause something to snap sooner or later.
According to Israel, they have, ahem… ‘the most moral military in the world’. And according to this psychiatrist these suicides are attributed to ‘moral injury’ due to ‘accidentally’ killing women and children.
With the amount of women and children murdered by the Israeli army, surely the entire army should have killed themselves through ‘moral injury’?
Perhaps the truth is simpler, Israel is a genocidal apartheid ethnocolony that forces its citizens to be complicit in its bloodshed through conscription and these are the few soldiers with any shred of morals left.
So many if not most of tbese suicides are the state, connected groups, killing them. They are fascist, it comes with the territory.
Not all that knew either, they have long disguised state sanctioned murder as car accidents.
More of this please.
I’d rather have the war stop though.
*genocide
It can be both.
That is indeed possible. But it happens not to be both.
Fuck these monsters; they deserved to be locked up for their crimes, who care about their nazi consciences?
Israeli army is significantly made of conscripts. Men need to serve at least 3 years compulsory military service, women 2 years.
And I am sure not all of them support the government. I would go as far as the one with PTSD and committing suicide are the ones that less support the talking points of the government
They were just following orders?
They have the option of refusing service and serving a few months in jail instead of shooting toddlers in the head. Conscription is not an excuse.
If you’re downvoting the idea of refusing to shoot children for 30 days in jail, you might just be a Nazi.
That excuse is one step removed from “just following orders”
Cool, what would you do? Desert? (And go where?) Commit suicide?
Option 1: Rape and kill (in)discriminately for 3 years Option 2: Use your passport and leave Option 3: Object and face jail time (inversely proportional to how well your parents are connected to police, lawyers, or politicians)
Gee, all three options sound equally bad so it’s a very tough choice
Do you realise that the wast majority of conscripts is doing office job. When you take the decision option 1 is more “doing office job unless you are unlucky”. And even there, likely the people that commit suicide and/or develop PTSD are not people that rape (they are doing just fine and happy to go for another mission)
Option 2 is only if you have two citizenships (and the other is not Russian like the majority of Israeli people) otherwise you can’t really move
It is possible to refuse to be conscripted, and be sent to jail for 30 days. Mostly people go to another country.
Most of them are dual citizens anyway, easiest out for any military.
I sure as shit wouldn’t be shooting children in the streets. Anywhere I guess, but also the streets. I’d rather take a bullet to the head denying an order instead of murdering an innocent.
PTSD can be caused by much more than just shooting someone. For example, witnessing the horror is probably enough. Most soldiers, in any military, never fire their rifle in combat. Many still have PTSD.
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Men need to serve at least 3 years compulsory military service, women 2 years.
Are you saying there are no innocents in Israel?
There’s children, there’s folks who refuse service. So I would venture to say that there are some people in Israel who are innocent. Of course, anyone who served in the military is not on that list.
Conscientious objectors are a thing. There are consequences to objecting, of course. Maybe it makes you a pariah in the settler colonial apartheid ethnostate of Israel, but just fucking move, you’re not supposed to be there anyway. Maybe you cannot move out of Israel, and you’ll be flipping burgers for the rest of your life or whatever. But you know what? Murdering a child to save your own career still makes you the bad guy. Helping others murder children to save your own career still makes you the bad guy.
But even beyond that, it’s not like these folks are going to gaza with a gun pointed to their head. Most of the population supports the government’s genocide of Palestinians, as polls show. There are very few innocents in Israel.
Yes, shooting civilians has that effect. I read something similar in the 3rd Reich general memoirs.
Yup. That’s why they came up with the extermination camps. More humane. For tne killers.
Seems like suicide is the only proof that Zionists have any humanity.
Almost like committing war crimes feels unethical. Obviously seen in Iraq, Viet Nam etc. I think it’s ok to feel bad for everyone
Poor genociders
(Article from Oct. 2024)
I remember this article was suspiciously titled similar to another one from a different outlet about a Gazan teenager who suffered loss of limbs and family, while sheltering outside a a school in a makeshift refuge camp.
Almost as if CNN saw it and wanted to do a reverse take.
Being a Nazi come with mental baggage?
I know you’re making a joke, but the Nazis actually ran into the exact same issue.
The Einsatzgruppen (death squads) had the problem that executing so many people was ‘demoralizing’ to the troops. They started to suffer from mental health problems. It’s not surprising, is it? Even with all the propaganda, even believing they were only murdering ‘lebensunwertiges Leben’ (life unworthy of life), killing so many scared, crying people, including children, takes a toll. Oh and it also costs a lot of bullets.
Because of this the Nazis started using gas vans to kill people. But even that was a problem, because the soldiers were getting traumatized when they had to empty all the bodies out of the vans. So they started using prisoners to do that work…
But well, it was all very inefficient and slow and expensive. And that’s how we eventually ended up with fully industrialized death camps with gas chambers and crematoria (of course with prisoners doing all the dirty work because why the hell not).
“Shooting and crying” (Hebrew: יורים ובוכים, romanized: yorim ve bochim) is an expression used to describe books, films or other forms of media that portray soldiers expressing remorse for actions they undertook during their service. It has often been associated with a practice that some former Israel Defense Force soldiers follow.
Gil Hochberg described “shooting and crying” as a soldier being “sorry for things I had to do.” This “non-apologetic apology” was the self-critique model advanced in Israel in many politically reflective works of literature and cinema as “a way of maintaining the nation’s self-image as youthful and innocent. Along with its sense of vocation against the reality of war, growing military violence, occupation, invasion, [there was] […] an overall sense that things were going wrong.”
