In the early days of the Nazi Party, Julius Schreck, the leader of the Stabswache (Adolf Hitler’s bodyguard unit), resurrected the use of the Totenkopf as the unit’s insignia. This unit grew into the Schutzstaffel (SS), which continued to use the Totenkopf as insignia throughout its history. According to a writing by Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, the Totenkopf had the following meaning:
The Skull is the reminder that you shall always be willing to put your self at stake for the life of the whole community.[11]
SS-Totenkopfverbände (‘Death’s Head Units’) was the Schutzstaffel (SS) organization responsible for administering the Nazi concentration camps and extermination camps for Nazi Germany, among similar duties. While the Totenkopf was the universal cap badge of the SS, the SS-TV also wore this insignia on the right collar tab to distinguish itself from other SS formations.
The… symbolic etymology, or however you’d say that, of this symbol… directly traces back to and explicitly references the Nazis, the SS.
Yeah, its been a thing in other LEO organizations in the US and Canads for a while now too.
LEO organizations run and staffed by Nazis.
EDIT:
In replying to a comment, I’ve made what is to me, an interesting discovery:
The Battle of Ramadi was one of the bloodiest during the Iraq War in which the Iraqi forces, the U.S. and its allies fought against insurgents. During the eight-month battle, many lives were lost on both sides, including U.S. Navy SEAL Michael Monsoor.
Monsoor died following a grenade attack in which he was trying to save others’ lives. He was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously for his acts of heroism.
Monsoor was part of SEAL Team 3 led by commander John Willink aka Jocko. A challenge coin was created commemorating the team’s exemplary efforts during such a bloody war.
That is apparently a challenge coin … presumably, designed by Jocko Willink, or at least for or by him and the surviving members of his unit, to commemorate primarily Monsoor.
That’s the first iteration that I am aware of, within the US Military, of a ‘totenkopf’, not with crossbones underneath, but with … well, strictly, they are flames, but they do resemble a crown.
… as we see in the ICE medallion.
The US military generally tends to stay away from overt usage skull imagery, due to… the similarity to and association with the totenkopf… you can find a few exceptions, but they tend to be … some kind of unit doing something … covert, deniable, probably not strictly legal. Cough, MACV SOG, cough.
So, perhaps, more recently… the crowned skull variant as a symbol just actually derives from Jocko, or that this serves as some kind of evolutionary step, a missing link between ‘totenkopf’ and the evidently current ‘crowned death’.
Jocko is a (former) Navy Seal, chummed it up with Dan Crenshaw, Tulsi Gabbard, Jordan Peterson, generally a big MAGA/Trump guy…
Yeah, I dunno, just ran into that, found it notable.
I do want to emphasize that skulls are used by a lot of different groups. Anarchists and communists have used them, like in the case of Dnieper Division’s flag (frequently misattributed to the Ukrainian Black Army), the Kronstadt Rebellion, Paris Commune, Arditi del Popolo, and probably more. To be very tongue in cheek, “not all skulls.”
But yes, in this context ICE are nazis and they are using the skull for nazi purposes.
There are good skull and cross bones, and then there are bad ones. All the ones I posted are good ones! Although be careful with the Arditi del Popolo one, Italian fascists (blackshirts) used one that is VERY similar to the point of effectively being the same. The differences being the the antifascist one typically has red eyes and a red knife. The reason why both ended up using the same symbol is because they are both using the symbol of the arditi, Italy’s shocktroopers from WW1. The Arditi del Popolo were antifascists (many being former arditi from WW1), being made up of anarchists, communists, and just anti-fascists in general and fought against the blackshirts.
Sorry to double post, but in replying to another comment, I’ve found something interesting, edited it into my original comment… perhaps you have thoughts about it?
I imagine they likely aren’t related, at least not directly. Could have played an influence on why they did a challenge coin in the first place, but I’m not seeing any serious overlap in design and symbolism, besides the skull itself, and unlikely the flame and crown. Not saying they couldnt be related, but I wouldnt bet on it. It was a good possible lead, but I don’t think itll lead anywhere. But thats just my opinion and analysis. Someone else might see things I dont
Yep, the Nazis are far from the only ideological … or really just any kind of group to use skull / skull and cross bones type imagery, more broadly, its… well just a commonly recognized symbol of death and mortality, and can and has been applied in various contexts.
But, yeah, as you say… in this context… its pretty fucking clear the branch of … symbological (sp?) meaning they are intentionally descending from.
And… well the unfortunate modern truth of it is that many symbols have been essentially taken, or claimed or colonized, whatever, by Nazis. The swastika itself is an example of this, I’m not a super duper expert, but basically, the original meaning of the symbol was… in the context of Hinduism/Buddhism primarily around India, and it symbolized something like luck, life, renewal.
But the Nazis famously took it, mirrored it, and ruined it, and also confused the fuck out of a lot of Westerners who only understand the symbol and Aryans via Nazism, when… both topics/concepts have much deeper and interesting histories than simply being something the Nazis appropriated.
Heck maybe I’m remebering my own American history with rose tinted glasses, but I could swear that in the 90s, the Gadsden flag had not been so strongly linked to the… ‘so libertarian/ancap they actually overtly flip and become loudly racist fascists’ crowd… granted, I was a kid in the 90s, but my impression was that the actual Nazis hadn’t quite cottoned on to using the Gadsen flag, back then they were just mostly using out right Swastikas or KKK derived symbology.
Metallica had a damned album that was basically a subdued, recolored Gadsden flag, the black album, in '91, and while they’re obviously not saints or philosophers, I wouldn’t go so far as to call them just actual fascists, at that point in time.
But all that with a grain of salt, thats just me trying to remember my white trash, white supremacist adjacent, evangelical upbringing.
Update: Here, yeah, Hetfield seems to be somewhat dismayed about how the particular song, and gadsden snake imagery, was warped into having a meaning that he says he did not mean to convey:
Metallica’s use of the image was a reference to the second single from the album, titled “Don’t Tread On Me.” As for his use of the image, he said this in an interview with MusicRadar in 2022,
“‘Don’t Tread on Me’, I love the song, but it shocked a lot of people, because everyone thought it was pro-war when they thought we were anti-war, and alls we’re doing is writing songs, we’re not standing politically on any side. ‘Don’t Tread on Me’ was just one of those ‘don’t *** with us’ songs, and obviously referencing the flag and the snake and what it meant, that all tied into the black album and the snake icon on the album cover, and I think it’s great to play that song live. We’re over here in Europe playing it, and people aren’t appalled by the songs. We haven’t played it in Iraq or Iran yet, though.”
Yeah I mean… “we’re basically dumbass fence sitters and we just want to make cool music with extremely broad market appeal” isn’t exactly commendable, but holy shit are there … way, way more overtly fascist metal bands, at least nowadays.
With the swastika it shows up in pretty much every culture and religion, not just hinduism. But also the symbol does typically share similar meanings. And yeah the Nazis obviously appropriated it and ruined it. Fascism is an ideology of aesthetics, vibe over substance. It is also an ideology of paradoxes and contradictions.
Its funny, I’ve actually known (via the internet at least) a few actual ‘Nords’, Finns, Swedes, Norweigans, who are actually quite pissed off by white supremacists increasing adoption of Norse gods and mythology, as they either take the religion … well, a degree of seriously, as a religion, or they just immensely value the stories as foundational to their culture.
Yep, fasiscm is an almost entirely vibes based ‘ideology’, which ultimately eschews reason, and embraces emotion, theatrics, and rhetoric… all to mask the worldview of a hateful, selfish bully, that really just wants to hurt whoever they identify as ‘the problem’, and anyone who doesn’t agree with their hate.
As Chaplin said:
“The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish…”
The symbol in the photo is different from Totenkopf. The German Totenkopf is easy to recognize, and copying it would be a no-brainer. Totenkopf also rather explicitly has the bones on it.
They’ve replaced the crossed bones beneath the skull, with a crown on top of the skull.
But it is used as a ‘challenge coin’, which is basically analagous to … a medal on a uniform, a medal from placing in a competitive sporting event.
Both the totenkopf as a symbol and the concept of a challenge coin both have their origins in militaries, or at least organized armed groups.
Many militaries give out challenge coins for various acts or participation in or completion of various kinds of things … most of them don’t give out skull medallions though, due to the extremely bad reputation of the totenkopf.
More history and examples of mostly military challenge coins:
Yes, the Trample the Weak coin does have a skull, and that is in fact pretty uncommon. The 173rd featured heavily in the MACV SOG during US operations in Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia… they were the covert force often sent into countries the US was not officially at war with, to try and cut off the Ho Chi Mihn trail.
They… may or may not have used some kind of mixture of tear gas and … some kind of sarin-like nerve agent, in that operation.
… pretty uncommon, by US military standards, arguably the existence and most operations of the unit itself… just were some kind of warcrime.
Now for coin 13… well, thats Jocko Willink’s unit.
He is exactly the kind of extremely far right person I am talking about. Friends with Dan Crenshaw, Tulsi Gabbard, Jordan Peterson, … super MAGA Trump guy… has a whole glowing piece about him at the Heritage Foundation, an extremely well funded and extremely far right political think tank / network …
It may infact be literally him, Jocko, who… literally coined the crowned variant of the skull, that we see more closely resembles the ICE challenge coin.
More lately, last couple of decades, various LEOs (law enforcement agencies) in the US and Canada have also begun to and more frequently given out challenge coins of varying kinds, same with PMCs and other private security outfits, for … carrying out various tasks or completing certain kinds of training…
But when its a skull, the symbolism there has long been a … semi-plausibly deniable Nazi dog whistle:
If you can find an instance of a group giving these skull mediallions, totenkopf adjacent coins out, you’re nearly 100% certain to find many of the members / leaders of that group also have and use other kinds of Nazi / White Supremacist / Hyper Religious Conservative imagery, symbolism, rhetoric, tattoos, etc.
Its… well known that ICE has literally 0 hiring standards, and its also pretty well known that a whole bunch of Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, fascist militia types, gleefully joined up with ICE after Trump got elected again.
Symbols grow and change over time, similar to how language does, how online image memes do, people reuse and remix them… but you can trace a lineage of how symbols evolve and change, who uses them to mean what.
Maybe the best modern example is how so, sooo many LEOs and their back the blue fans have adopted and remixed the Punisher skull.
The Punisher is a comic book character who murders corrupt cops and government and officials and basically anyone he feels has fucked him over in some way, abused their powers… but the symbol has been paradoxically adopted by cops, who are themselves quite often abusive, corrupt, and break any law they think they can get away with breaking.
They’re the people the Punisher would be killing, but they can’t see it. They like the skull imagery because ‘death’, ‘badass’, ‘i’ll fuck you up’, ‘you can’t stop me’ … and, also, because … its a skull, fits well into the already existing set of Nazi related imagery.
As I mentioned in another reply, the Swastika itself is not ‘the original’, its a mirrored version of the original symbol, which now has… extremely different connotations and implied meaning than it did before the Nazis appropriated it and gave it a new meaning and reputation.
They’ve replaced the crossed bones beneath the skull, with a crown on top of the skull.
Indeed, the same way as if you replace the blue in the French flag with green, turn it 90°, and slap the Nishan Rasmi symbol in the middle, you get the Iranian flag, which means that France is a Muslim state.
Claiming that any and every skull is Totenkopf is as empty-brained and deranged as saying that Hamlet is Nazi propaganda because of the Yorick scene, and every biology classroom is Nazi-affiliated because of the skeleton model in it. There are better reasons to hate ICE than making up random shit on the web. Especially since the OP claim has rather thin proof to it.
Your BBC style of one-sentence-per-paragraph ramblings also raises severe suspicion of a mental illness.
Ok but actually, speaking as a person who studied flags, its not actually far off. Obviously not the France being muslim part, and whether or not the Iranian flag has any influence from the french, Idk, but there would have been a good chance you would have been right if you threw a dart at a map. Although more accurately most tricolor flags are inspired from either the red, white, and blue or the orange, white, and blue Dutch flags. Some of them in really roundabout ways.
Firstly, obviously someone invented tricolor flags, it’s not much of a revelation.
Secondly, if you studied a bit more, you’d know that the colors of Iranian flag aren’t random, but are typical for Muslim countries and are a subset of the pan-Arabic colors. Green represents Islam in Muslim symbology both in flags and elsewhere.
In case anyone is somehow unaware:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf
The… symbolic etymology, or however you’d say that, of this symbol… directly traces back to and explicitly references the Nazis, the SS.
Yeah, its been a thing in other LEO organizations in the US and Canads for a while now too.
LEO organizations run and staffed by Nazis.
EDIT:
In replying to a comment, I’ve made what is to me, an interesting discovery:
https://www.coinvaluechecker.com/rare-challenge-coins-worth-money/
That is apparently a challenge coin … presumably, designed by Jocko Willink, or at least for or by him and the surviving members of his unit, to commemorate primarily Monsoor.
That’s the first iteration that I am aware of, within the US Military, of a ‘totenkopf’, not with crossbones underneath, but with … well, strictly, they are flames, but they do resemble a crown.
… as we see in the ICE medallion.
The US military generally tends to stay away from overt usage skull imagery, due to… the similarity to and association with the totenkopf… you can find a few exceptions, but they tend to be … some kind of unit doing something … covert, deniable, probably not strictly legal. Cough, MACV SOG, cough.
So, perhaps, more recently… the crowned skull variant as a symbol just actually derives from Jocko, or that this serves as some kind of evolutionary step, a missing link between ‘totenkopf’ and the evidently current ‘crowned death’.
Jocko is a (former) Navy Seal, chummed it up with Dan Crenshaw, Tulsi Gabbard, Jordan Peterson, generally a big MAGA/Trump guy…
Yeah, I dunno, just ran into that, found it notable.
I do want to emphasize that skulls are used by a lot of different groups. Anarchists and communists have used them, like in the case of Dnieper Division’s flag (frequently misattributed to the Ukrainian Black Army), the Kronstadt Rebellion, Paris Commune, Arditi del Popolo, and probably more. To be very tongue in cheek, “not all skulls.”
But yes, in this context ICE are nazis and they are using the skull for nazi purposes.
There are good skull and cross bones, and then there are bad ones. All the ones I posted are good ones! Although be careful with the Arditi del Popolo one, Italian fascists (blackshirts) used one that is VERY similar to the point of effectively being the same. The differences being the the antifascist one typically has red eyes and a red knife. The reason why both ended up using the same symbol is because they are both using the symbol of the arditi, Italy’s shocktroopers from WW1. The Arditi del Popolo were antifascists (many being former arditi from WW1), being made up of anarchists, communists, and just anti-fascists in general and fought against the blackshirts.
Sorry to double post, but in replying to another comment, I’ve found something interesting, edited it into my original comment… perhaps you have thoughts about it?
I imagine they likely aren’t related, at least not directly. Could have played an influence on why they did a challenge coin in the first place, but I’m not seeing any serious overlap in design and symbolism, besides the skull itself, and unlikely the flame and crown. Not saying they couldnt be related, but I wouldnt bet on it. It was a good possible lead, but I don’t think itll lead anywhere. But thats just my opinion and analysis. Someone else might see things I dont
Fair enough!
Absolutely, always good to give more context for anyone further interested!
rambling semi-associated thoughts encapsulated herein
Yep, the Nazis are far from the only ideological … or really just any kind of group to use skull / skull and cross bones type imagery, more broadly, its… well just a commonly recognized symbol of death and mortality, and can and has been applied in various contexts.
But, yeah, as you say… in this context… its pretty fucking clear the branch of … symbological (sp?) meaning they are intentionally descending from.
And… well the unfortunate modern truth of it is that many symbols have been essentially taken, or claimed or colonized, whatever, by Nazis. The swastika itself is an example of this, I’m not a super duper expert, but basically, the original meaning of the symbol was… in the context of Hinduism/Buddhism primarily around India, and it symbolized something like luck, life, renewal.
But the Nazis famously took it, mirrored it, and ruined it, and also confused the fuck out of a lot of Westerners who only understand the symbol and Aryans via Nazism, when… both topics/concepts have much deeper and interesting histories than simply being something the Nazis appropriated.
Heck maybe I’m remebering my own American history with rose tinted glasses, but I could swear that in the 90s, the Gadsden flag had not been so strongly linked to the… ‘so libertarian/ancap they actually overtly flip and become loudly racist fascists’ crowd… granted, I was a kid in the 90s, but my impression was that the actual Nazis hadn’t quite cottoned on to using the Gadsen flag, back then they were just mostly using out right Swastikas or KKK derived symbology.
Metallica had a damned album that was basically a subdued, recolored Gadsden flag, the black album, in '91, and while they’re obviously not saints or philosophers, I wouldn’t go so far as to call them just actual fascists, at that point in time.
But all that with a grain of salt, thats just me trying to remember my white trash, white supremacist adjacent, evangelical upbringing.
Update: Here, yeah, Hetfield seems to be somewhat dismayed about how the particular song, and gadsden snake imagery, was warped into having a meaning that he says he did not mean to convey:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/articles/features/the_story_of_the_artwork_on_metallicas_black_album_and_the_unexpected_band_that_inspired_it-161365
Yeah I mean… “we’re basically dumbass fence sitters and we just want to make cool music with extremely broad market appeal” isn’t exactly commendable, but holy shit are there … way, way more overtly fascist metal bands, at least nowadays.
With the swastika it shows up in pretty much every culture and religion, not just hinduism. But also the symbol does typically share similar meanings. And yeah the Nazis obviously appropriated it and ruined it. Fascism is an ideology of aesthetics, vibe over substance. It is also an ideology of paradoxes and contradictions.
Its funny, I’ve actually known (via the internet at least) a few actual ‘Nords’, Finns, Swedes, Norweigans, who are actually quite pissed off by white supremacists increasing adoption of Norse gods and mythology, as they either take the religion … well, a degree of seriously, as a religion, or they just immensely value the stories as foundational to their culture.
Yep, fasiscm is an almost entirely vibes based ‘ideology’, which ultimately eschews reason, and embraces emotion, theatrics, and rhetoric… all to mask the worldview of a hateful, selfish bully, that really just wants to hurt whoever they identify as ‘the problem’, and anyone who doesn’t agree with their hate.
As Chaplin said:
“The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish…”
The symbol in the photo is different from Totenkopf. The German Totenkopf is easy to recognize, and copying it would be a no-brainer. Totenkopf also rather explicitly has the bones on it.
Yes, its derived from it, not identical to it.
They’ve replaced the crossed bones beneath the skull, with a crown on top of the skull.
But it is used as a ‘challenge coin’, which is basically analagous to … a medal on a uniform, a medal from placing in a competitive sporting event.
Both the totenkopf as a symbol and the concept of a challenge coin both have their origins in militaries, or at least organized armed groups.
Many militaries give out challenge coins for various acts or participation in or completion of various kinds of things … most of them don’t give out skull medallions though, due to the extremely bad reputation of the totenkopf.
More history and examples of mostly military challenge coins:
https://www.coinvaluechecker.com/rare-challenge-coins-worth-money/
Note about numbers 8 and 13
Yes, the Trample the Weak coin does have a skull, and that is in fact pretty uncommon. The 173rd featured heavily in the MACV SOG during US operations in Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia… they were the covert force often sent into countries the US was not officially at war with, to try and cut off the Ho Chi Mihn trail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tailwind
They… may or may not have used some kind of mixture of tear gas and … some kind of sarin-like nerve agent, in that operation.
… pretty uncommon, by US military standards, arguably the existence and most operations of the unit itself… just were some kind of warcrime.
Now for coin 13… well, thats Jocko Willink’s unit.
He is exactly the kind of extremely far right person I am talking about. Friends with Dan Crenshaw, Tulsi Gabbard, Jordan Peterson, … super MAGA Trump guy… has a whole glowing piece about him at the Heritage Foundation, an extremely well funded and extremely far right political think tank / network …
https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/can-jocko-save-america
It may infact be literally him, Jocko, who… literally coined the crowned variant of the skull, that we see more closely resembles the ICE challenge coin.
More lately, last couple of decades, various LEOs (law enforcement agencies) in the US and Canada have also begun to and more frequently given out challenge coins of varying kinds, same with PMCs and other private security outfits, for … carrying out various tasks or completing certain kinds of training…
But when its a skull, the symbolism there has long been a … semi-plausibly deniable Nazi dog whistle:
If you can find an instance of a group giving these skull mediallions, totenkopf adjacent coins out, you’re nearly 100% certain to find many of the members / leaders of that group also have and use other kinds of Nazi / White Supremacist / Hyper Religious Conservative imagery, symbolism, rhetoric, tattoos, etc.
Its… well known that ICE has literally 0 hiring standards, and its also pretty well known that a whole bunch of Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, fascist militia types, gleefully joined up with ICE after Trump got elected again.
Symbols grow and change over time, similar to how language does, how online image memes do, people reuse and remix them… but you can trace a lineage of how symbols evolve and change, who uses them to mean what.
Maybe the best modern example is how so, sooo many LEOs and their back the blue fans have adopted and remixed the Punisher skull.
The Punisher is a comic book character who murders corrupt cops and government and officials and basically anyone he feels has fucked him over in some way, abused their powers… but the symbol has been paradoxically adopted by cops, who are themselves quite often abusive, corrupt, and break any law they think they can get away with breaking.
They’re the people the Punisher would be killing, but they can’t see it. They like the skull imagery because ‘death’, ‘badass’, ‘i’ll fuck you up’, ‘you can’t stop me’ … and, also, because … its a skull, fits well into the already existing set of Nazi related imagery.
As I mentioned in another reply, the Swastika itself is not ‘the original’, its a mirrored version of the original symbol, which now has… extremely different connotations and implied meaning than it did before the Nazis appropriated it and gave it a new meaning and reputation.
Indeed, the same way as if you replace the blue in the French flag with green, turn it 90°, and slap the Nishan Rasmi symbol in the middle, you get the Iranian flag, which means that France is a Muslim state.
Claiming that any and every skull is Totenkopf is as empty-brained and deranged as saying that Hamlet is Nazi propaganda because of the Yorick scene, and every biology classroom is Nazi-affiliated because of the skeleton model in it. There are better reasons to hate ICE than making up random shit on the web. Especially since the OP claim has rather thin proof to it.
Your BBC style of one-sentence-per-paragraph ramblings also raises severe suspicion of a mental illness.
Ok but actually, speaking as a person who studied flags, its not actually far off. Obviously not the France being muslim part, and whether or not the Iranian flag has any influence from the french, Idk, but there would have been a good chance you would have been right if you threw a dart at a map. Although more accurately most tricolor flags are inspired from either the red, white, and blue or the orange, white, and blue Dutch flags. Some of them in really roundabout ways.
Firstly, obviously someone invented tricolor flags, it’s not much of a revelation.
Secondly, if you studied a bit more, you’d know that the colors of Iranian flag aren’t random, but are typical for Muslim countries and are a subset of the pan-Arabic colors. Green represents Islam in Muslim symbology both in flags and elsewhere.
Oh.
Ok.
Well then, fuck off nazi!
I mean, I really cannot think of anything worse as a symbol than a skull
A rat’s anus?