The article you paints a much more nuanced picture:
De commandant die hem ontving, verzekerde hem dat dat allemaal verleden tijd was. ’Dit is niet het Azov van vroeger’, werd hem verteld. ’Azov is hervormd, gezuiverd, en opnieuw opgebouwd.’
Translation: the commander who welcomes him(Hendrik) says Azov is not what it used to be, has been reformed, purified, and rebuilt. He mentions seeing nazi symbols in an office though.
Een paar andere buitenlandse jongens waren ook weg, ze hadden teams gezien waar elke morgen de nazigroet werd gebracht.”
Translation: other foreign soldiers also wanted to leave, some had even seen teams where everyone did the Nazi salute in the morning. Ie. he didn’t actually see the Nazi salutes himself. which indicates is indeed less common than the title and you suggest.
„We willen voorkomen dat de oorlog doorslaat naar Europa. Als we daar stoppen, dan verslechteren onze eigen kansen.”
Closing words from soldier in question: we want to prevent the war spreading to Europe. Als we stop supporting Ukraine, our own chances worsen."
This topic should be very important to ukrainians too no?
Why is Russia being a fascist state not an important topic for you?
Why would we not want to stop a fascist state in Ukraine, before it continues into Europe, and continues to fund the far right globally?
Why are you parrotting Russian propaganda about Ukraine which suggests Ukraine has a larger fascist problem than it does?
These are rhetorical questions. No need to answer.
The OP frequents tankie communities where the likes of Stalin, Assad, and sometimes Putin are praised all the time. Whether deliberately or not, they fail to grasp the most basic concept of fascism or the adjacent totalitarianism, where the part “total” is crucial in understanding that it’s all about power before ideology. Someone like Putin may not raise his hand in the Hitler salute, but his track record of killings, human rights abuses and warmongering makes the occasional Nazi sympathizers in the Ukrainian army look like child’s play in comparison.
As you note earlier, far-right ideas are unpopular in Ukraine, and funnily enough, the same far-right groups and individuals, demonized by Russia and tankies who often cite the likes of Sputnik, actually have a solid track record of supporting pro-democracy causes like Euromaidan, if not defending Ukraine from Russian imperialism. On the latter, the regular people in Ukraine don’t care about the tattoos, patches, daily rituals or even the political ideas of someone who’s there to help them evacuate after long weeks of being shelled by Russia and living with no heat, electricity, or running water. Heroism is defined by actions, not by ideas.
If I posted 100 pictures from Kiev Pride, would this mean everyone in Ukraine is gay?
If I told you my grandma was 100 and smoked 2 packs a day, you wouldn’t believe smoking is healthy. If I posted 20 pictures of old grannies smoking, you still wouldn’t believe it.
There being an existing fascist problem in Ukraine before the war, doesn’t mean it’s a disproprtionate problem now. In fact, polling in the last Ukrainian election suggests it isn’t anywhere as large a problem as Russia propagandists would have you believe.
Right Sector got something like 2% in the last Ukrainian elections, but 70% of Ukrainians are pro-gay rights. Meanwhile Russia is the most dangerous country in Europe to be gay. They will put you in jail for being gay. Gay Russians have consequently died. Gay Russians are regularly murdered.
Ukraine isn’t perfect, but it doesn’t have a huge fascist problem, especially when compared to Russia. In fact, the idea that Ukraine has a huge fascist problem is a Russian narrative.
Russia is a fascist state. Racist, homophobic, with Putin openly admiring and quoting self-avowed fascists and supporting fascist parties across the world.
If you uncritically push the narrative of a fascist state, defend the people who are the largest sponsors of fascism, surround yourself with people that push the propaganda of a fascist state, what does that make you?
The leader of Russian occupied Donetsk complimenting Ukrainian fascists, who received roughly 2% of the vote in the last elections. Ukrainian fascists are apparently more popular in Russian occupied Ukraine than in free Ukraine.
Meanwhile in Russia proper, the Pride march has been banned for years, people are regularly arrested for being gay, websites which stream movies like Brokeback Mountain are banned, the “international LGBT movement” whatever that is was labeled as a banned extremist organization, the police regularly raid gay bars, gay people are regularly murdered, and the country has become one of if not the most dangerous country to be gay in Europe. But apparently that’s not a country full of fascists.
But hey, maybe Ukraine is overrun with gay jewish Nazis.
I am happy we agree on Israel pink washing. I also agree on Russia using “Nazis” as war propaganda.
The sad truth is neither the West nor Russia will let Ukraine be independent or neutral. They will take as much as they can, for whatever price they can afford.
I wish nations would cease to exist but in the meantime I would be happy enough if we could get the bastards that have created this mess vaguely points at everything to the guillotine.
Chair, today the United States expresses opposition to this resolution, a document most notable for its thinly veiled attempts to legitimize longstanding Russian disinformation narratives smearing neighboring nations under the cynical guise of halting Nazi glorification.
If Russia actually cared about fighting Nazi ideology then Aleksandr Dugin’s ideas wouldn’t be so popular in the Kremlin.
I don’t know rick, the United States seems pretty nazi to me. Ukraine could have just hidden behind the abstention (like all the other pseudo-fascists cowards) and the motion would have not passed anyway. But they choose to vote against the glorification of nazism.
Yes, because as I just pointed out, they’re flatly rejecting a disinformation narrative that was in service of eroding their national sovereignty. Given this vote preceded their being invaded (again) by Russia, I can understand it. And again, Russia isn’t interested in eliminating far right ultranationalist sentiment; the call is coming from inside the house.
The article you paints a much more nuanced picture:
Translation: the commander who welcomes him(Hendrik) says Azov is not what it used to be, has been reformed, purified, and rebuilt. He mentions seeing nazi symbols in an office though.
Translation: other foreign soldiers also wanted to leave, some had even seen teams where everyone did the Nazi salute in the morning. Ie. he didn’t actually see the Nazi salutes himself. which indicates is indeed less common than the title and you suggest.
Closing words from soldier in question: we want to prevent the war spreading to Europe. Als we stop supporting Ukraine, our own chances worsen."
Why is Russia being a fascist state not an important topic for you?
Why would we not want to stop a fascist state in Ukraine, before it continues into Europe, and continues to fund the far right globally?
Why are you parrotting Russian propaganda about Ukraine which suggests Ukraine has a larger fascist problem than it does?
These are rhetorical questions. No need to answer.
The OP frequents tankie communities where the likes of Stalin, Assad, and sometimes Putin are praised all the time. Whether deliberately or not, they fail to grasp the most basic concept of fascism or the adjacent totalitarianism, where the part “total” is crucial in understanding that it’s all about power before ideology. Someone like Putin may not raise his hand in the Hitler salute, but his track record of killings, human rights abuses and warmongering makes the occasional Nazi sympathizers in the Ukrainian army look like child’s play in comparison.
As you note earlier, far-right ideas are unpopular in Ukraine, and funnily enough, the same far-right groups and individuals, demonized by Russia and tankies who often cite the likes of Sputnik, actually have a solid track record of supporting pro-democracy causes like Euromaidan, if not defending Ukraine from Russian imperialism. On the latter, the regular people in Ukraine don’t care about the tattoos, patches, daily rituals or even the political ideas of someone who’s there to help them evacuate after long weeks of being shelled by Russia and living with no heat, electricity, or running water. Heroism is defined by actions, not by ideas.
Edit: Grammar
“Heroism is defined by actions, not ideals.” -You
Also before 2022:
If I posted 100 pictures from Kiev Pride, would this mean everyone in Ukraine is gay?
If I told you my grandma was 100 and smoked 2 packs a day, you wouldn’t believe smoking is healthy. If I posted 20 pictures of old grannies smoking, you still wouldn’t believe it.
There being an existing fascist problem in Ukraine before the war, doesn’t mean it’s a disproprtionate problem now. In fact, polling in the last Ukrainian election suggests it isn’t anywhere as large a problem as Russia propagandists would have you believe.
I wonder if anything out of the ordinary has happened to UA pride events since…
Meanwhile in occupied Ukraine:
Right Sector got something like 2% in the last Ukrainian elections, but 70% of Ukrainians are pro-gay rights. Meanwhile Russia is the most dangerous country in Europe to be gay. They will put you in jail for being gay. Gay Russians have consequently died. Gay Russians are regularly murdered.
Ukraine isn’t perfect, but it doesn’t have a huge fascist problem, especially when compared to Russia. In fact, the idea that Ukraine has a huge fascist problem is a Russian narrative.
Russia is a fascist state. Racist, homophobic, with Putin openly admiring and quoting self-avowed fascists and supporting fascist parties across the world.
If you uncritically push the narrative of a fascist state, defend the people who are the largest sponsors of fascism, surround yourself with people that push the propaganda of a fascist state, what does that make you?
That was a rhetorical question.
Fucking Tel Aviv has a pride parade so that is really saying little about a country being full of fascists or not…
Here’s Smotrich, the elected Israeli Finance minister:
Israel engages in pink washing, but the fact Smotrich is a minister says a lot, even if they haven’t banned pride (yet.)
Meanwhile in Ukraine:
The leader of Russian occupied Donetsk complimenting Ukrainian fascists, who received roughly 2% of the vote in the last elections. Ukrainian fascists are apparently more popular in Russian occupied Ukraine than in free Ukraine.
Meanwhile in Russia proper, the Pride march has been banned for years, people are regularly arrested for being gay, websites which stream movies like Brokeback Mountain are banned, the “international LGBT movement” whatever that is was labeled as a banned extremist organization, the police regularly raid gay bars, gay people are regularly murdered, and the country has become one of if not the most dangerous country to be gay in Europe. But apparently that’s not a country full of fascists.
But hey, maybe Ukraine is overrun with gay jewish Nazis.
HexBear and ML are really not a great space for LGBT people with how they advocate for Russia so fiercely.
deleted by creator
I am happy we agree on Israel pink washing. I also agree on Russia using “Nazis” as war propaganda.
The sad truth is neither the West nor Russia will let Ukraine be independent or neutral. They will take as much as they can, for whatever price they can afford.
I wish nations would cease to exist but in the meantime I would be happy enough if we could get the bastards that have created this mess vaguely points at everything to the guillotine.
If they don’t care, it should not be so unpopular, then.
I would describe it as “very concerning” rather than “nuanced”.
And I do believe the problem is bigger than many people are willing to admit. It’s worth discussing properly to me.
Here’s the US justification for the No vote.
If Russia actually cared about fighting Nazi ideology then Aleksandr Dugin’s ideas wouldn’t be so popular in the Kremlin.
I don’t know rick, the United States seems pretty nazi to me. Ukraine could have just hidden behind the abstention (like all the other pseudo-fascists cowards) and the motion would have not passed anyway. But they choose to vote against the glorification of nazism.
Yes, because as I just pointed out, they’re flatly rejecting a disinformation narrative that was in service of eroding their national sovereignty. Given this vote preceded their being invaded (again) by Russia, I can understand it. And again, Russia isn’t interested in eliminating far right ultranationalist sentiment; the call is coming from inside the house.