We, the admin team, decry all forms of settler-colonialism, and we recognize that Zionism is a pro-settler-colonialist position.
Therefore we propose that should no longer be accepting of any Zionist accounts on our instances.
Please upvote for agree, downvote for disagree.
Note: we only count votes by instance members of dbzer0 and anarchist.nexus, plus a few vouched-for external users.
Hi mateys, I’ve kept things simple in the above text, for brevity, but in fact it took the admin team quite a while to get to this stage. We have discussed the policy change extensively, and a variety of different perspectives emerged. I will attempt to sum them up below as best I can:
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The “this isn’t that complicated” school of thought goes something like this: If someone is consistently posting comments that mirror Hasbara talking points (e.g. justifying the genocide in Gaza, consistently painting Palestinians as terrorists and Israel as the victim), then they should be instance banned. It’s just not acceptable for Zionists to be allowed on our instances.
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The “slippery slope” / “purity test” school of thought is that banning people for having an “unpopular” political opinion would potentially mean banning half the fediverse, if more and more of these policies were enacted over time. To attempt to mitigate this we are keeping the scope of this rule as narrow as possible, and I also don’t think many of our users will be affected. Also, we typically don’t have frequent policy changes, and I have no reason to expect that to change moving forward.
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Another important discussion point was “how do we decide whether someone is pro-Zionist or not?” We can’t always be 100% sure of someone’s true intentions, we can only go on what they have posted and that is subject to interpretation. I don’t feel there is an easy answer to this one, except to say that we would have to be pretty certain before issuing a perma-ban.
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The “geopolitics don’t matter” school of thought is that trying to be on the “correct” side of every issue is kind of pointless because nothing that happens in lemmy chat forums will ever make an ounce of difference in the real world. Don’t bother moderating users over political/ideological differences, just let people argue if they want. While I can totally empathize with this sentiment, I can also see the case for taking a clear stance on this topic in accordance with our values and the overwhelming support for the Palestinian cause among our users. Personally, I am advocating in favor of the resolution.
Please add your comments below if you want to provide your own thoughts on the topic, or have any questions.
expiry: 7
That is too simplistic. But supporting the continued supremacist oppression and colonial expansion of Palestine would be what is over the line. 3 acceptable solutions:
Undoing “distant past” colonialism is not a practical solution anywhere, and pointing out those impracticalities is not Zionist supremacism.
Human Spiral, this policy could end up banning people like you, right? Personally, I do not support Israel, but even supporting a two-state solution might be enough for a left-libertarian to want to ban you.
I understand that bans cause more extremist group think. Definition of Zionism can shift to being opposed to genocide, dispropiation and deportation of Israelis. Ironically, Zionazi view of final solution is that if Israel doesn’t genocide first, the others will drive them into the sea. Human coexistance is something that Israel refuses to consider. But there is uncertainty and trepidation to “stopping to be an asshole” and what follows.
No that’s not simplistic it’s just plain old 100% correct
Do you think Nazi Germany should exist?
Do you think ISIS should exist?
Do you think Israel should exist?
Germany should and does exist. It got denazified.
Maybe Israel should be dezionised, then allowed to exist
So you are saying Nazi Germany did get abolished as a country and they had to give up all the land they colonized.
Or are you going to say Poland is Germany?
You’re doing exactly what fundamentalist right-wing nut-jobs from Israel are doing towards Palestine.
You’re doing exactly what fundamentalist right-wing nut-jobs from Israel are doing towards Palestine.
To keep to your example: he didn’t say “Nazis are evil and need to be hunted”. He said “Germans are evil and need to be hunted”.
Feel the difference, or nah?
I said Nazis are evil and so are Zionists.
Did you, though?
You wrote:
Where’s the mention of Zionists?
Since making the connection between Nazi Germany Israel appears incredibly difficult because you do not understand the difference between Nazi Germany and Germany, let us simplify this.
Should Apartheid South Africa have been abolished yes or no?
Mate, it’s super simple - either you fucked up, or you’re advocating for genocide. That’s all there is to it.
You wrote:
This is a direct quote from you. I didn’t change it in any way.
You didn’t say “do you think Zionists should exist”, you didn’t say “do you think Likud should exist”, you didn’t say “do you think right-wing fundamentalists in Israel should exist”.
You suggested Israel in itself existing is something bad.