• dogbert@lemmy.zip
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    8 hours ago

    Left/Right is linked to social issues, because those social issues are impacted by economics. Economics always comes first my friend.

    The notion that “leftism starts with anti-authority and democracy” is not really a sentiment that is supported by academic works in any capacity. It doesn’t even hold up to extremely simple scrutiny. There are plenty of conservative democracies across the world.

    • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
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      7 hours ago

      Authority predates economics. Authority is the root of all problems, economics in a capitalist sense are designed to maintain a hold on power.

      Representative “Democracies” as they exist today are not anti-authority or even really a democracy. Only direct democracy can bring that.

      • dogbert@lemmy.zip
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        7 hours ago

        Economics predates capitalism. I’m not only talking about the current economic system. Regardless of our primitive past, economics is here to stay and is integral to political analysis.

        Only direct democracy can bring that.

        Correct, you can’t have political democracy without economic democracy, hence: communism.

        • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
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          7 hours ago

          And economics does not predate authority. Which was my claim, not capitalism or any other system of economics.

          Direct democracy does not require an economic system to exist. Democracy is something we can employ from the grass-roots, hence anarchism.

          • dogbert@lemmy.zip
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            7 hours ago

            Authority comes from ownership of resources. Sound familiar?

            Direct democracy does not require an economic system to exist.

            That’s correct, but economics DO exist and must be manipulated in order to become stateless. You can’t just waive a magic wand and create a society. It has to come from what is materially present.

            Anarchists have never achieved the notion you’re putting forward. It’s never been done. Socialists/communists have had real success.

            • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
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              7 hours ago

              Authority comes from might.

              Anarchists have success in the Chiapas and Rojava. MLs have never succeeded, they have only enslaved the people for the benefit of the new elite.

              • dogbert@lemmy.zip
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                7 hours ago

                “Might” comes from resources. I can’t make it any more simple for you.

                Remind me, did anarchists industrialize an entire nation the size of a continent? Did they build a country of peasants into astronauts and scientists? Going toe to toe with big bad America?

                Oh they didn’t? Huh…

                • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
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                  7 hours ago

                  Did Anarchists commit genocide?

                  Did Anarchists annex neighbouring countries?

                  Did Anarchists install and prop up puppet regimes?

                  The only way communists went toe to toe with big bad America was by being equally as big bad.

                  • dogbert@lemmy.zip
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                    7 hours ago

                    Moving the goalposts I see…

                    I have no interest in defending the morals of communist states. It’s merely an economic system that is the best equipped with dismantling capitalism.