TL;DR: Mozilla is killing localization on Support Mozilla, overwriting articles written by humans with machine generated translations. Although Mozilla knows that their AI doesn’t localize or adhere to style guides, Mozilla is going live with it anyway. I thank locale leaders and localizers for their tireless efforts. Locale leaders seem to be obviated by AI, and Mozilla has nothing to say about it.
Why the fuck is lemmy so chuck full of anti Fiirefox and anti Mozilla propaganda?
I even see comments about Firefox needing to be open source again.
It FUCKING IS open source, anybody can fork it if they want to, the only thing they can’t do is use the Firefox logo and name.You are all a bunch of idiots!!
Why would they override articles that were already done? Makes no fucking sense!
Sooooo
Chrome is out
Firefox is put
What is a professional Brower that can do all what the above two can do, but is open source and not riddled with adware or ad allow ware, spyware and other shit?
Is there any browser left that we can still use for all sites?
You can try to help fund ladybird maybe? But it is still in development.
I wouldn’t mind donating to have Firefox off of Mozilla’s hands and back into the FOSS sphere where it belongs. Heck i’d even pay a subscription.
It’s just going to line the pockets of executives.
They have the money. They choose not to spend it.
They link to it in the article, but for visibility, the resignation of Japanese SUMO community lead, contributor of 20 years. They voice their concrete issues.
that tonedeaf response of the mozilla staff boils my blood. holy fuck. i hate mozilla so much for years already but in recent times it got so much worse. cant wait to switch to ladybird or other alternatives in the future.
Anytime I see an anti-mozilla article, it’s abundantly clear that it’s an astroturfing campaign to make Firefox look bad. You NEVER see these articles about chrome, brave, opera, etc which are all much much worse.
Put it this way, I don’t trust a corpo browser and never have. 2008 or whenever it was that everyone switched to Chrome, I stayed with Firefox, which I’d been using for a few years already. I remember upgrading to Firefox 2.0.
I’m interested when Firefox is pulling this shit and don’t give a fuck otherwise, because I already assume the others do this.
Idk if we’ll ever get anything decent out of the Servo browser engine. That would be ideal IMO. Mozilla is starting to become part of the problem.
The way they are forcing AI on everyone and into every aspect of their browser especially when a large part of the people who use Firefox hates that shit is going to end Firefox.
The reason you don’t hear it about all those other browsers is because people have always known they don’t give a fuck what the end user wants.
Firefox used to be different. But all good things deteriorate over time. Watching it happen in real time to a browser we all use and used to love is why you see it so much posted especially in places with like minded individuals like Lemmy.
There’s AI in Firefox? I’m running it as new as I can in Arch and have never seen a hint of it.
Sidebar on the left has one of those star icons that opens an AI chatbot, or you can hit ctrl + alt + x
They keep mentioning AI features, but I haven’t really seen anything annoying yet.
Oh ok. I rarely use any browser features beyond bookmarks. Thats pretty much all I need from a browser. So I don’t explore the side bars and stuff.
Calling objections to what some unelected jerks in the foundation (which is a supposedly public organization) are doing is not “anti-Mozilla”. And I would first suspect of astroturfing everyone pretending it is.
Raising voices and putting pressure about things spoiling something is caring about it. And yes, people who care try to make real effect and not just safely complain to be ignored.
Mozilla honestly has been becoming worse and worse since Australis.
I’d say that’s because here on Lemmy, we already don’t give a fuck about and wouldn’t touch Chrome or Edge with a ten foot pole, but some of us trusted Mozzila, which is now starting to do dumb AI shit. And having your trust broken hurts.
Astroturfing would not be recommending LibreWolf as an alternative.
If you look into alternatives, Brave is one that’s usually mentioned but there’s always someone quickly posting all of the dumb shit they did.
What an odd comparison. What differentiates Mozilla from others is their close relationship with their community. Just read their manifest and you will see Immediately why they are getting flag for humiliating their own supporters.
This is bullshit. Brave literally have a webpage mentioning their shit. You are trying to gaslight us all.
Eh, I’m not about to stop using Firefox, but the complaint is valid. They nuked a bunch of work from volunteers without notice in favor of shitty auto translate.
Almost all Microsoft KB articles are machine translated.
Every time I open a reddit article from a search it attempts to auto-translate which immediately looks and reads very inhuman.Yeah, I am astroturfing. It can’t be that I actually believed Mozilla when they said that localizers were heroic.
But this is not about Firefox delelopment, but about community getting overthrown for apparently no reason.
Lol, bashing that shitty “org” is a civic duty. Fuck Mozilla.
They like that the money goes to activism on African countries instead of the fcking browser. Just until one year ago they started to work again on features.
I left that sinking ship in 2021. Just watching it sink slowly from the river’s edge.
Why? They have free (as in free beer) volunteers. AI could do translation for pages nobody had time to translate yet but taking over the localization seems unnecessary.
Edit: Okay it is kinda like that, the bot automatically translates everything but volunteers can still contribute and provide better localization. It just seems to not work that well, overwriting things it should not when the actual work is just translating one additional sentence. Or simply not being that great at localization. In general AI translation is not a terrible idea but this seems clearly half baked and Mozilla has stopped responding to the complaints which isn’t helping either.
That’s not always great either though because if the AI miss-localizes things, end users in that language wont even know that their documentation is incorrect. Better to have incomplete than wrong documentation. At least then the end user will know they have to try to read a different language. It might be good to use AI to create an unpublished first draft that is then polished by a person before publishing, though it seems the AI is not good enough to be useful in that manner.
Not terrible idea? Did you heard about ai japanase localization disaster?
I mean yes, that is why I wrote the edit. It does seem like you could do this properly, by allowing AI to do rough translations of new articles and humans do proper localization afterwards. And prevent AI from overwriting localization of text that has not actually been altered in the original language.
The problem is that’s not what they’re doing, even after people who volunteered time to work on localisation have asked for the AI to not overwrite existing human-translated documents. That’s the bare minimum, but it seems like it’s too much for Mozilla
While what happened in Japan sucks and calls for an apology by Mozilla towards the team, the general idea of machine translation on demand is one of the few working examples of machine learning. I’d recommend professional systems instead of google translate, though.
In all objectivity, this seems like the most rational thing to do.
Now that you can have good translation by AI, why would anyone want to waste their time on localization?
As a translator, I have to say machine translations are really good if you just want to get the gist of things. If all you want is to understand 90% of what’s written and you can live with the margin of error, then I’m not gonna try to convince you to hire me.
But if you need to understand 99.9% then a human is required because a machine just will not understand the nuance or have a larger context unless instructed. Localizing is another issue too, you’ll have to take into consideration the cultural nuance of the target language. Localizing software is even more niche because you’re often limited in character count for the source language which machines often misunderstand, and the same limitation for the target language that a machine may not account for.
tl;dr - hire me if you want good localization
Now that you can have good translation by AI,
I see the bots are commenting on lemmy.
The main issue, and this is also mentioned in the blog post, is that the bot only does translation and not localisation.
The first is just taking the words from one language and changing to another.
The second is to actually make sure the text in the new language makes proper sense. Maybe the English article uses some analogy that does realy make sense in the new language. Localisation is to find some other suitable analogy to use instead, so that the point from the main article is kept, but it still makes sense.
I do some volunteer work on localizing for Welsh and some Spanish. AI translations are hot garbage still even for the larger languages like Spanish. You can get a general idea of the intent most of the time, but that’s about it. It’s nowhere near good enough to replace humans with yet, definitely not good enough to overwrite what they’ve already translated.
I’ve never seen any machine translation that I would consider anywhere near good.
deepl.com (text translation) has been useful to me
It is good, specially on mid size text. But it is not good enough. When text is long or too short, it gets lost and makes tons of context mistakes. It also tends to be unnatural for the target language preferring original language phrasing.
That’s what you get with dozens of new executives and crazy pay packages for the top brass huh?
I’m losing hope. I might just give in to chromium honestly.
No, do not give into Chromium. Letting Google dominate web rendering standards is a bigger problem.
I agree, and I honestly don’t want to go chromium… But Mozilla is making it harder and harder to even want to use their product.
I’m not getting off Firefox/Floorp yet, but Mozilla needs to stop messing this up so royally at every turn…
Looking at the situation and deciding that prefering Chrome would be better is exactly the bot position to take.
Mozilla is turning into the same thing every other big corporations are, including Google. Inflated executive numbers and pay, cutting what made then unique (think of all the FOSS stuff they’ve killed along the way)…
I’m not jumping to Vivaldi or whatever just yet, but ugh… Their latest push for AI is driving me very close…
Still doesn’t make sense. One company is turning to AI so that drives you to other companies that already have AI and are precedentally worse?
I’m not saying Mozilla is a saint. The sooner we can replace the executive branch, the better. But the even better comparative is if somehow we don’t even need to get to that point in the first place, and not supporting Mozilla at the past edge of where they’re at is defo not gonna lead to that.
When the ladybird browser is just around the corner? Give it some time.
Aren’t the devs persona non grata for some reason or another?
