I don’t really understand how we can not just seize the assets, who cares if Russia sues? If it was a joint effort between multiple countries, the risk of retaliation is low. It’s they wanted to keep they money, then don’t go to war with one of us. (As in European, not EU)
Edit: I understand there might be rules, but let’s just change them and seize it
Not that I disagree but in reality:
- You can’t change rules retroactively in most places (ex post facto law)
- If you were to ignore the above then all the scolding of countries like Hungary or Poland about the rule of law becomes harder to justify
- EU countries might not want to destroy their credibility as a stable place to hold your money
EU has to set up some kind of international crimes tribunal where a case against Russia is won and reparations are granted to Ukraine first at very least.
You can’t change rules retroactively in most places
well the war is ongoing so they wouldn’t be retroactive… the cause for the change might have been some past behaviour, but that’s the case with most laws: you see a problem, make a law, the law applies to future behaviour
EU countries might not want to destroy their credibility as a stable place to hold your money
i think they’ve well and truly proven that unless you’re going to spend years waging war on an EU candidate country then you’ll be fine… and i think it’s wild that russia didn’t pull assets out of the US and EU before the war started… that shouldn’t be an expectation: that your assets are safe even when you commit war crimes? no! your assets shouldn’t be safe anywhere in the world for war criminals and people that are working against the interests of those countries
well the war is ongoing so they wouldn’t be retroactive… the cause for the change might have been some past behaviour, but that’s the case with most laws: you see a problem, make a law, the law applies to future behaviour
I’m sure Russia didn’t place any new funds in EC custody since their existing ones were frozen. What are the laws that Russia was found guilty of? Please remember that in civilised countries you’re not guilty until independent court decides that and you have a chance to appeal, even when the case is blatantly obvious.
i think they’ve well and truly proven that unless you’re going to spend years waging war on an EU candidate country then you’ll be fine… and i think it’s wild that russia didn’t pull assets out of the US and EU before the war started… that shouldn’t be an expectation: that your assets are safe even when you commit war crimes? no! your assets shouldn’t be safe anywhere in the world for war criminals and people that are working against the interests of those countries
Those countries are part of EU and have voting rights. Do you mean we now ignore that too?
I think you are right, it might be more expensive (in many ways) to break the trust in the long term.
What trust? You can trust us with your money, unless you plan on attacking Europe is IMO the correct message to send.
Hell, I’d add it as a law: in case of being the aggressor in a war, all your assets will be used to help with reparations.
What is Europe though? Ukraine isn’t a part of EU, NATO or even EEA so borders of that European empire we’re protecting become kind of arbitrary.
Ukraine is part of Europe.
That aside, Russia is violating not only human rights and the rule of law with its illegal invasion, it has also broken some 400 treaties since the invasion began in 2014 (that’s basically all treaties the Kremlin has signed).
More importantly, though, Putin has been signing several decrees since 2022 allowing the seizure of Western assets, entangling firms ranging from Germany’s Uniper to Danish brewer Carlsberg.
And Europe is not an “Empire.” Protecting Ukraine means protecting Europe as Russia will not stop here but rather aiming to attack the next country.
Ukraine is part of Europe.
And Europe is not an “Empire.” Protecting Ukraine means protecting Europe as Russia will not stop here but rather aiming to attack the next country.
That’s a rhetoric of spheres of influence and I don’t want EU to go there. It’s in our best interest to help out Ukraine so that we’re not flooded with millions more of refugees and because independent Ukraine is better for trade. Given the current political climate it’s best to stick to cold business facts rather than ideals - it’s easier to sell to general public.
More importantly, though, Putin has been signing several decrees since 2022 allowing the seizure of Western assets, entangling firms ranging from Germany’s Uniper to Danish brewer Carlsberg.
Euroclear is not responsible for that.
Europe is a continent which Ukraine is part of. Border of Europe is pretty well defined, though I’m very open to redrawing the borders so that Russia isn’t even partially part of Europe.
You’re back to sphere of influence talk, that’s something Russia does but we shouldn’t.
I believe that being nice to people who want to hurt you is stupid. Call it whatever you want, if you attack Europe, you’re disturbing our peace and that should come with serious repercussions.
When you “just change rules” and do whatever you feel like with shit that belongs to another sovereign nation. Other sovereign nations take note.
Who will want to invest in Europe if they can just retroactively change the law to seize your assets if they don’t like you.
Yes, it’s obviously justified in this case, but that kind of doesn’t matter.
What should happen, is the status of the funds gets worked out as part of the peace agreement
i think europe has well and truely proven that the bar for “don’t like you” is pretty high… if you don’t wage a multi-year genocidal war-crime-riddled war on your neighbour, in Europe’s backyard then you’re golden
Are they just mad because they are able to profit off that capital and don’t want to lose it?
If so, then they are no better than the Swiss taking gold from the Nazis.
