I’m really pleased. Non consensual strangulation and rape aren’t ok to show… there’s laws in the UK about other types of extreme porn, and finally extreme porn against women is being recognised. I’m a dv outreach worker and find abusive men tend to be very high users of pornography, and strangulation is a known red flag for how dangerous a perp is (see here).
There’s a million other types of porn people can watch that don’t involve non consensual fantasies.
Why kink shame tho? Choking is a kink that can be practiced safely and rape role play is a thing that can be both non harmful and even beneficial for survivors. Even if none of this is true by banning said pornography and you ultimately move towards creating an atmosphere where people with these kinks feel further stigmatized and less likely to discuss them, meaning maybe they will be more likely to act on their urges in inappropriate ways (eg not explicitly discussing consent, not respecting refusal of consent, especially young people, who may be ignorant, etc).
The solution is probably not to pretend that people don’t have these behaviors and try to legislate them away to pretend they’ll stop existing if people simply aren’t exposed to the idea, imo. That’s like thinking banning violent video games will stop school shootings
Well that’s just it though you’re talking about something that’s consensual. It sounds like they specifically target Non-Consensual acts and probably also acts that are are indistinguishable from non-consensual Acts.
Sounds like it excludes CNC. Am I mistaken about the ban?
Edit: I am indeed. Depoction, regardless of intent, possession, or choking in real life regardless of consent, is to be illegal with very serious consequences (paraphrasesing)
I halfway agree. Consenting partners in real life should be free to do anything legal and ethical that works for them. That may include CNC. But does there need to be porn depicted of all of those acts? Especially if CNC porn is such a risk factor for sexual and domestic violence.
That’s not a rhetorical question and I don’t know the answer. I’m wondering, though, if a sex act would be consensual and not unethical in real life, would it still be ethical in porn if broadcasted to millions? Maybe for some kinks? Maybe not for others?
I don’t know. What if the kink is to film and upload it too?
The industry is obviously filled with terrible practices and disgusting people who push misogynistic ideas. I am not debating this. I don’t know how you could, it is essentially fact. But I also don’t think that taking something that is already hard to openly discuss and further stigmatizing it is the answer?
I see it differently. There’s a link between porn and harmful attitudes towards women, I see it at least weekly at work. There’s also research showing there’s no such thing as safe strangulation. Government research has shown strangulation in porn has normalised it during sex. If people want to practice the kink that’s fine, but the law is just limiting extreme porn, just like uk law already forbids porn depicting necrophilia.
There is a difference from CNC / Ravishment fantasies that can be done safely and choking which can not. Putting them together is disingenuous.
Also a link doesn’t mean that this “violent” porn causes harmful attitude against women. It’s more likely those men with those attitudes seek out that porn.
Yes absolutely that may well be why there’s a link, but it’s still being fed by the content and it can increase the risk they pose women. I don’t see that you can separate the two in this context. To me, there’s enough to legalise against this, just like they have with other porn acts. But I understand that’s not your perspective
Just playing the devil’s advocate butterfly, and I think we’ve grown to respect each other here, do you feel that the representation you see at work represents the majority of viewers, or do you feel that by the time you’ve seen them you are already seeing a sunset of viewers?
Essentially causation vs correlation. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. People you see committing violence there is a correlation to violent pornography, but is there a correlation if violent pornography back to domestic violence? If so, is it a 1:1 correlation?
abusive men tend to be very high users of pornography, and strangulation is a known red flag for how dangerous a perp is
This alone I think makes this an important issue to address. Clearly the porn isn’t satisfying their dark urges but instead making it worse and encouraging them to act it out.
I think this is more important to address than representation for a kink. It states “non-consensual strangulation” anyway and if that’s your kink, then uh, you’re probably in the wrong community for one thing. Also it’s practically a stereotype and joke now that whenever the dark side of porn is brought up, people rush in defend “kinks”.
It’s pretty fucking weird that we go after cigarettes and gambling and loot boxes in video games, but easy access to porn doom scrolling for all ages on the devices in our pockets is the last thing that anyone wants to address. I’m sure that consenting, knowledgeable and safe adults with this kink weren’t suffering before pornhub was a thing.
I’m really pleased. Non consensual strangulation and rape aren’t ok to show… there’s laws in the UK about other types of extreme porn, and finally extreme porn against women is being recognised. I’m a dv outreach worker and find abusive men tend to be very high users of pornography, and strangulation is a known red flag for how dangerous a perp is (see here).
There’s a million other types of porn people can watch that don’t involve non consensual fantasies.
Why kink shame tho? Choking is a kink that can be practiced safely and rape role play is a thing that can be both non harmful and even beneficial for survivors. Even if none of this is true by banning said pornography and you ultimately move towards creating an atmosphere where people with these kinks feel further stigmatized and less likely to discuss them, meaning maybe they will be more likely to act on their urges in inappropriate ways (eg not explicitly discussing consent, not respecting refusal of consent, especially young people, who may be ignorant, etc).
The solution is probably not to pretend that people don’t have these behaviors and try to legislate them away to pretend they’ll stop existing if people simply aren’t exposed to the idea, imo. That’s like thinking banning violent video games will stop school shootings
Well that’s just it though you’re talking about something that’s consensual. It sounds like they specifically target Non-Consensual acts and probably also acts that are are indistinguishable from non-consensual Acts.
Sounds like it excludes CNC. Am I mistaken about the ban?
Edit: I am indeed. Depoction, regardless of intent, possession, or choking in real life regardless of consent, is to be illegal with very serious consequences (paraphrasesing)
If CNC is allowed all they did was make attempted murder illegal, again
I halfway agree. Consenting partners in real life should be free to do anything legal and ethical that works for them. That may include CNC. But does there need to be porn depicted of all of those acts? Especially if CNC porn is such a risk factor for sexual and domestic violence.
That’s not a rhetorical question and I don’t know the answer. I’m wondering, though, if a sex act would be consensual and not unethical in real life, would it still be ethical in porn if broadcasted to millions? Maybe for some kinks? Maybe not for others?
I don’t know. What if the kink is to film and upload it too?
The industry is obviously filled with terrible practices and disgusting people who push misogynistic ideas. I am not debating this. I don’t know how you could, it is essentially fact. But I also don’t think that taking something that is already hard to openly discuss and further stigmatizing it is the answer?
I see it differently. There’s a link between porn and harmful attitudes towards women, I see it at least weekly at work. There’s also research showing there’s no such thing as safe strangulation. Government research has shown strangulation in porn has normalised it during sex. If people want to practice the kink that’s fine, but the law is just limiting extreme porn, just like uk law already forbids porn depicting necrophilia.
There is a difference from CNC / Ravishment fantasies that can be done safely and choking which can not. Putting them together is disingenuous.
Also a link doesn’t mean that this “violent” porn causes harmful attitude against women. It’s more likely those men with those attitudes seek out that porn.
Yes absolutely that may well be why there’s a link, but it’s still being fed by the content and it can increase the risk they pose women. I don’t see that you can separate the two in this context. To me, there’s enough to legalise against this, just like they have with other porn acts. But I understand that’s not your perspective
Just playing the devil’s advocate butterfly, and I think we’ve grown to respect each other here, do you feel that the representation you see at work represents the majority of viewers, or do you feel that by the time you’ve seen them you are already seeing a sunset of viewers?
Essentially causation vs correlation. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. People you see committing violence there is a correlation to violent pornography, but is there a correlation if violent pornography back to domestic violence? If so, is it a 1:1 correlation?
This alone I think makes this an important issue to address. Clearly the porn isn’t satisfying their dark urges but instead making it worse and encouraging them to act it out.
I think this is more important to address than representation for a kink. It states “non-consensual strangulation” anyway and if that’s your kink, then uh, you’re probably in the wrong community for one thing. Also it’s practically a stereotype and joke now that whenever the dark side of porn is brought up, people rush in defend “kinks”.
It’s pretty fucking weird that we go after cigarettes and gambling and loot boxes in video games, but easy access to porn doom scrolling for all ages on the devices in our pockets is the last thing that anyone wants to address. I’m sure that consenting, knowledgeable and safe adults with this kink weren’t suffering before pornhub was a thing.