The problem is that banning shit doesn’t remove it. Any porn sites or circumventing of law will more easily show off stuff like choking.
sex education works. early sex education works even better. Look to the dutch.
but it’s apparently easy to “ban” something and impossible to do anything about it.
See every video start with “all sexual acts are consensual”. There they got around it.
they aren’t banning it based on whether it’s non-consensual, it’s any porn that features strangulation or choking …
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyk3qzq7k7o
Online pornography showing strangulation or suffocation is to be made illegal, as part of government plans to tackle violence against women and girls.
Both the possession and publication of such material will be a criminal offence, under amendments to the Crime and Policing Bill currently going through Parliament.
Online platforms would also be required to proactively detect and remove such material or face enforcement action via media regulator Ofcom.
Online pornography depicting women being choked is to be banned, following a review that found such images are rife and have helped establish the act as a sexual norm.
The government confirmed the possession and publication of images showing strangulation and suffocation will be criminalised, as part of a crackdown on violent pornography.
While non-fatal strangulation is already an offence, its online depiction is not currently illegal.
[Conservative] Baroness Bertin cautioned that people acting out choking in their sex lives “may face devastating consequences”.
I feel torned about it. As someone that did experience doing breathplay from my abusive Ex which wasn’t consensual, it is scary how people who watches them forget that porn (especially more hardcore one) aren’t real and just wants to do without any further research of how you do it as safely you can. It’s beyond wreckless for those who don’t do it but still asked their partners to take part. Safety is key in BDSM.
That being said, I do feel like the issue with porn is that the adult industry is really exploitive to adult star, women especially. It needs to more regulation for both the studio that produce it as well as the website especially that hosted those videos from shady porn makers on their website. Banning strangling in porn isn’t going to solve it, it’s a half-assed effort at best.
I agree it’s a highly exploitative industry. There’s so much use of underage, trafficked, coerced women and the way it portrays women can be terrifying. Plus there’s not good use of condoms! The main issue to me is that.
There is a list of dead porn stars on IAFD with the cause of death listed. A big chunk of the list are suicides, overdoses, murders and accidents under the influence of drugs. If any other industry would have these numbers, there would be outrage.
That’s an excellent point.
My thoughts are that this is obviously the UK slipping farther into authoritarian control of the internet. It hasn’t stopped where they said it will stop in the past and it won’t stop here.
I’m really pleased. Non consensual strangulation and rape aren’t ok to show… there’s laws in the UK about other types of extreme porn, and finally extreme porn against women is being recognised. I’m a dv outreach worker and find abusive men tend to be very high users of pornography, and strangulation is a known red flag for how dangerous a perp is (see here).
There’s a million other types of porn people can watch that don’t involve non consensual fantasies.
Why kink shame tho? Choking is a kink that can be practiced safely and rape role play is a thing that can be both non harmful and even beneficial for survivors. Even if none of this is true by banning said pornography and you ultimately move towards creating an atmosphere where people with these kinks feel further stigmatized and less likely to discuss them, meaning maybe they will be more likely to act on their urges in inappropriate ways (eg not explicitly discussing consent, not respecting refusal of consent, especially young people, who may be ignorant, etc).
The solution is probably not to pretend that people don’t have these behaviors and try to legislate them away to pretend they’ll stop existing if people simply aren’t exposed to the idea, imo. That’s like thinking banning violent video games will stop school shootings
Well that’s just it though you’re talking about something that’s consensual. It sounds like they specifically target Non-Consensual acts and probably also acts that are are indistinguishable from non-consensual Acts.
Sounds like it excludes CNC. Am I mistaken about the ban?
Edit: I am indeed. Depoction, regardless of intent, possession, or choking in real life regardless of consent, is to be illegal with very serious consequences (paraphrasesing)
If CNC is allowed all they did was make attempted murder illegal, again
I halfway agree. Consenting partners in real life should be free to do anything legal and ethical that works for them. That may include CNC. But does there need to be porn depicted of all of those acts? Especially if CNC porn is such a risk factor for sexual and domestic violence.
That’s not a rhetorical question and I don’t know the answer. I’m wondering, though, if a sex act would be consensual and not unethical in real life, would it still be ethical in porn if broadcasted to millions? Maybe for some kinks? Maybe not for others?
I don’t know. What if the kink is to film and upload it too?
The industry is obviously filled with terrible practices and disgusting people who push misogynistic ideas. I am not debating this. I don’t know how you could, it is essentially fact. But I also don’t think that taking something that is already hard to openly discuss and further stigmatizing it is the answer?
I see it differently. There’s a link between porn and harmful attitudes towards women, I see it at least weekly at work. There’s also research showing there’s no such thing as safe strangulation. Government research has shown strangulation in porn has normalised it during sex. If people want to practice the kink that’s fine, but the law is just limiting extreme porn, just like uk law already forbids porn depicting necrophilia.
There is a difference from CNC / Ravishment fantasies that can be done safely and choking which can not. Putting them together is disingenuous.
Also a link doesn’t mean that this “violent” porn causes harmful attitude against women. It’s more likely those men with those attitudes seek out that porn.
Yes absolutely that may well be why there’s a link, but it’s still being fed by the content and it can increase the risk they pose women. I don’t see that you can separate the two in this context. To me, there’s enough to legalise against this, just like they have with other porn acts. But I understand that’s not your perspective
Just playing the devil’s advocate butterfly, and I think we’ve grown to respect each other here, do you feel that the representation you see at work represents the majority of viewers, or do you feel that by the time you’ve seen them you are already seeing a sunset of viewers?
Essentially causation vs correlation. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. People you see committing violence there is a correlation to violent pornography, but is there a correlation if violent pornography back to domestic violence? If so, is it a 1:1 correlation?
abusive men tend to be very high users of pornography, and strangulation is a known red flag for how dangerous a perp is
This alone I think makes this an important issue to address. Clearly the porn isn’t satisfying their dark urges but instead making it worse and encouraging them to act it out.
I think this is more important to address than representation for a kink. It states “non-consensual strangulation” anyway and if that’s your kink, then uh, you’re probably in the wrong community for one thing. Also it’s practically a stereotype and joke now that whenever the dark side of porn is brought up, people rush in defend “kinks”.
It’s pretty fucking weird that we go after cigarettes and gambling and loot boxes in video games, but easy access to porn doom scrolling for all ages on the devices in our pockets is the last thing that anyone wants to address. I’m sure that consenting, knowledgeable and safe adults with this kink weren’t suffering before pornhub was a thing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyk3qzq7k7o
each article I’m reading doesn’t even say it’s criminalizing “non-consensual choking” - just all choking or strangulation in porn will be criminalized …
and they are warning that they will criminalize consensual choking in people’s sex lives:
Baroness Bertin cautioned that people acting out choking in their sex lives “may face devastating consequences”.
This is coming from a right-wing, sex-negative perspective, and criminalizing consensual choking in people’s personal sex lives or in porn seems like a clear wrong.
Non-consensual choking is already illegal, it should be mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqloPw5wp48
^ this video is relevant
Ah thanks mate it’s potentially misinformation so I’ll delete it. Sorry should have checked
I have a lot of mixed feelings about porn in general. Obviously, I’m squarely opposed to non-consensual acts being shown in porn in any way. I feel like it’s impossible for womens’ groups to have this conversation without people getting into screaming matches. I think you can be pro-porn or critical of porn, or both, and still be feminist either way.
I do wonder if this will lead to a chilling effect where this stops porn makers from depicting consensual acts of choking or other forms of CNC. But then a part of me wonders whether every fetish must be shown in video-recorded porn. CNC isn’t my fetish and it makes me really sad and uncomfortable. Should I just try to ban everything I don’t fully understand? Or should there be a conversation about which fetishes are ethical to be depicted by real people and made into video? Like for CNC, is it better that this kink just be depicted in erotica or drawn art form so we’re completely sure the actors consented in all instances of video-recorded porn?
Ease of access is another problematic variable. I think porn just wasn’t as harmful to the public before the internet when people had to go out of their way to buy it. People these days are more likely to get addicted from a young age and it causes so many social and developmental problems. And maybe if porn were harder to access by impressionable people, and if we made sure all acts were consensual, that certain types of extreme porn, like CNC, wouldn’t be quite as harmful?
I guess my thoughts are: 1) Ban all non-consensual porn. 2) Ban all free internet porn and make adults buy their porn instead, and then you could keep it out of minors’ hands without scary age-verification laws. 3) Give sex workers fair wages, treat them ethically, and normalize the field enough so it’s easier for them to find other work if they decide to change industries.
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