goblins are back on the menu boys.
As a vegetarian - this is hilarious
My daughter is in this meme also. No meat, but she loves her eggs
Chickens are very poorly treated in some farms. I’d prefer not to get into details, it’s very NSFW.
I think the way in which the chicken is raised
doesn’t affect vegansdoesn’t change the vegans stance :pBut, I think it’s fair to say that some methods of eating animals are less cruel than others. It’s better to get people to eat less cruel than not and better to eat less meat than not. Eating from local farms is almost always better.
Fwiw there’s a lot of vegans who chose their stance because of how the animals are treated.
I’m not vegan but it is rather terrible. It’s beginning to affect the food, too. Ever notice that a lot of chicken has the grainy/woody issue nowadays? That’s caused by the chickens growing too large too fast. Their muscles experience a lot of stress and inflammation, quite often becoming so large they literally rip off of the bones.
If you want good chicken, go to a butcher or buy air-chilled.
You are correct that it doesn’t change my stance, and I wouldn’t use animal products (e.g. eggs or wool are two big ones people bring up a lot) even if I know for a fact that the animal is treated well and isn’t suffering at all.
But also - I agree with you. Buying cheap wool from Amazon vs getting wool from your buddy that has some alpacas as pets is extremely different. Same for Walmart eggs (even free range ones - I have seen free range chicken farms, knew someone who treated their chickens “well” by industry standards and it was… not great) vs getting them from the local guy down the street who has a hens that their kids play in the yard with.
I personally will never eat even those animal products because for me being consistent in every scenario is a lot easier, and I don’t feel the need to justify why eating animal products is ok in certain circumstances - I just don’t do it. And I feel like this is a better stance than still finding ways to still consume, but I would be much, much happier if everyone who consumed animal products only did so through such means. That would require that we as a society produce orders of magnitude less animal products, though. It’s not normal or healthy for humans to consume pounds of meat every day, and we produce even more than we consume, leading to excess waste. Basically the whole system is garbage and switching to “kind” animal products would be just as, if not more, difficult than just going vegan as a society.
But yes, I would accept any ally in trying to reduce “Big Ag” or whatever people call it these days. We can argue about the most optimal way to sustain a society when we have fixed the things we can pretty much all agree are problems.
Thanks for posting that! I was gonna say most of the vegans and vegetarians I know say similar to what you said. They have a few different reasons for why they’re vegan or vegetarian, but they all tend to agree that it’s generally better to just… Eat less meat. Not even not eat meat, but just eat less of it. That’s pretty easy to do, honestly, so it’s easy to give a shot.
Heck, (and I’m not sure if I agree with this), I once heard someone say they were a vegetarian that occasionally eats meat. It’s a neat way to think of it, though, and if they eat less meat because of it, then why not? Reframe it, who am I to stop them?
Regardless, I’ve been trying to eat less meat, mostly because the messaging works. So, keep it up!
Heck, (and I’m not sure if I agree with this), I once heard someone say they were a vegetarian that occasionally eats meat.
There’s also a separate term for it: Flexitarian.
I imagine, it’s such a popular stance, because it deals well with the social expectation to eat meat, which is typically the biggest barrier for people to go vegetarian. For example, you can not eat meat while you’re cooking for yourself, but then have it when you’re going out with friends or family.
I can’t go full plant based (medical bullshit) but the times when meat was a seasoning rather than the main ingredient taught me to cook good flavors. I still don’t know how to give up butter tho
Don’t take this personal, but I just have to:
Thanks for posting that! I was gonna say most of the consensuals I know say similar to what you said. They have a few different reasons for why they’re consensual, but they all tend to agree that it’s generally better to just… rape less. Not even not to rape, but just do less of it. That’s pretty easy to do, honestly, so it’s easy to give a shot.
Heck, (and I’m not sure if I agree with this), I once heard someone say they were a consensual that occasionally rapes. It’s a neat way to think of it, though, and if they rape less because of it, then why not? Reframe it, who am I to stop them?
Regardless, I’ve been trying to rape less, mostly because the messaging works. So, keep it up!
Don’t take this personal, but I just have to:
You need to let go of the hate, it makes your life miserable. There is nothing for you at the bottom of this, just paranoia and destruction. Go meet some real people in reality, it helps.
I truly am not a hateful person. And i appreciate you eating less meat, it’s important and the right thing to do. I get a little impatient with all the babysteps, the apologies and the Bullshit Bingo (long-tap for a reply) sometimes. Because if you boil it down, you are causing a creature to suffer greatly for your pleasure while living in a world where that is not necessary anymore.
I leave you with the Vegan Society’s definition from 1944. Please don’t reframe this:
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
Ah, apologies, you are a real person. I also see you are not very perceptive or you would notice I copied one of your own messages back at you. And your reply infers that it wasn’t truly meant as a joke, either.
Okay, then here’s a question: What kind of context clues did you get that I really wanted you to make vegans look like jackasses? Also, second question: Have you ever convinced someone to be vegan by being a huge asshole?
Because it’s not like I don’t agree with vegans. But what you did was comment on a chain that includes someone saying that vegans make an enemy out of everyone that doesn’t fully conform to them, and you seem to have tried to prove them right. Why??? You have to understand that I assumed you were a troll. Because that kind of attitude is so shitty that it defies reason.
As always these things are complicated. I do not claim to represent any group stance, but the way the animal is treated very much matters to me. How can I argue in good faith against something like Cooperative Payún Matrú, a goat herder’s collective, in the Andes? Their animals are truly free roaming. The animals’ lives are not constant suffering. It’s more sustainable than the way many of my vegetables are grown.
Even though your point of view is reasonable and a good compromise, it still makes you an enemy of vegans. Even though it’s moving the world closer to their goals, they’d rather ostracize everyone who’s taking measured steps.
I’m vegetarian, I know a bunch of vegans. I don’t know if I’ve ever felt ostracised by any of the vegans I’ve had a conversation with. I’ve also got many meat eating friends. We share perspectives with each other and can converse about things like adults (I don’t want to eat anything that has a face). I honesly have no idea where the crazy vegans are apart from the news 🤷♂️
I mean, that assumes everyone is vegan for the same reason. I have a friend who runs ultramarathons and she found she recovers faster from a long race on a vegan diet.
I don’t think that’s true for all or even most vegans. Most vegans I know will lightly chide me to eat less animal products, and they’ll list the benefits. I’m okay with that, especially because, well… they’re right.
I say that because a lot of the vegans I know will explain a lot about the global socioeconomic conditions that make veganism and vegetarianism harder in poorer places.
I dunno, man, I feel like the most they’re trying to do is be smug, and that’s not that big of a deal to me, lol.
I’m happy you have good experiences then! Might be regional tbh
I think veganism just self selects for more “crazy” people, because you have to be pretty odd to go against what almost everyone else is doing. That said, I’m vegan and I basically fully agree with what they said.
They’re taking the chickens to Isengard?
Someone told the nazgul about cock rings, but they misunderstood.
Ei-sengard.
I hope some German speakers enjoyed that pun.
Oh
Ich ess’ lieber keine Orceier.
Und die Scwänze konnen sie sich auch behalten.Haben Orcs 'leicht Plfaumen?
No Sengard?
No, s’en garde.
No hay jardín
What did you say?
One egg to rule them all, one egg to find them, One egg to bring them all and in the omelette bind them.
I’m making my famous all day meatballs right now. I’m using a neighbor’s egg, which is much bigger than standard store bought ones. So this content is ringing hard for me.
Are we sure the One Ring isn’t an everything bagel?
Shhh, Jobu Tupaki might hear you.
Fuck there’s a good bagel shop just outside of bike range. I either need to get on shape or a second battery
Trader Joe’s had everything bagel seasoning that I have been putting on every last fucking thing I’ve made since discovering it.
Making the mother of all omlettes here, Jack. Can’t fret over every egg!
Just got two dozen out of the coop this morning.
delicious, delicious butt nuggets.
Do vegans care about the suffering and abuse that goes on in the produce global market? If so, they should also avoid vegetables
Good to know that you don’t or do you subsist on homegrown prokaryotes?
Yea you are so right, since i cant have perfectöy thical living i just kill every living being and explode the sun, thank you for your wisdom wow you are so smart.
You know that most of the farming is used to feed animals that then get eaten?(wich isnt very efficiant) So if you care about the suffering made by the global produce market you should be vegan…
Why do you guys take everything in a joke meme thread like it’s a personal attack? So weird. Keep it in your holster psycho boy
“The same anti-vegan rhetoric that has been spit for years”
“That’s not even accurate.”
“Reee why are you so upset”
You’re so cool dude
Are people still doing Reee? I thought that was considered gross, but I mean you’re a guy who is raging over something I don’t even remember, I just ran into your reply after living my life. Life, try it.
Well if you guys would make your jokes a but funnier so people saw the joke and not make it look like every dumb argument everyone throws at you if you ask if there is a vegan option at the dinner, then we would propably know its a joke… looking at your downvotes i guess you just didnt word the joke in a way to make people realise that it was a joke, altho i dont get the joke part of it tbh. There are pleanty grow arguments in meme threads and good conversations, only because the post was a meme doesnt mean that every comment iss obviously a joke, look at the other comments here and you will find out that people do argument and not just post “jokes”…
Also “keep it in your holster psycho boy”? Really? Did you really think that was a good and cool retord? lol
Wonder what animal rights people think about mosquitoes…
Jainism. It’s ancient and worried about small lifeforms we can’t see since before we identified bacteria or used a microscope.
You could ask the same question about all sorts of parasites (ticks, tapeworms, etc.), but I think the answer is pretty clear. It’s not the conundrum you think it is, and the vast majority of people correctly see no contradiction between killing a mosquito that’s on their arm drawing blood and agreeing that mosquitoes are a relevant part of the ecosystem that should not disappear entirely.
Animal rights people saying you cannot kill mosquitos for ethical reasons is such a small minority, I guess it must be lower than 0.0001%
Most vegans and vegetarians I know choose that lifestyle because they see a problem in the ecological and environmental implications of eating meat and for political reasons of how animals are kept.
Have you seen how intensive animal farming works in practice? Even as a meat eater one must admit the conditions are cruel. I don’t think we do this with mosquitos.
It’s not really that complicated. I think most people feel that we shouldn’t toruture animals. It’s just that a small part realize what is happening to the animals that we eat and they don’t want to be part of that system anymore. The others just look away but they actually feel the same about how we should treat animals. “Animal Rights People” are not some “hard to understand” people.
Who wants to eat mosquitoes anyway
Dragonflies.
Didn’t know dragonflies participated in the human rights debate
They are staunchly anti human rights
Why mosquitoes? Cats are right there. They’re obligate carnivores.
But I don’t see that as the point, the point is that we as an (supposedly) intelligent species can choose not to murder a quarter of a billion chickens every 24 hours, and that we can replace what nutrients we get from meat with mineral, plant or fungi alternatives.mUrDeR
People like you are why vegans/vegetarians have such an uncalled for bad rep.
Interchange for any fitting synonym for murder. Slaughter for example. The meaning is the same and so is the outcome
Do you have a preferred term that helps you disassociate from the cruelty your lifestyle inflicts behind closed doors?
There is a word for it, it is slaughter.
No need to try to be condescending.
sLaUgHtEr
:^)
Remember, there is laughter in slaughter 🥳!
That entire line of reasoning only works if the person you’re talking to already considers meat consumption to be inherently cruel.
While those people certainly exist, trying to convince them to be vegan is a form of, "Preaching to the choir.
I’ve never seen accusations of cruelty change anyone’s behavior. I’ve personally gotten many people to reduce their meat consumption through dialog (and cooking *).
Look up the guy who is generally credited with convincing the most KKK members to quit the Klan and how he did it.
Daryl Davis. The main message to take away from his work is to get to know people. I’m commenting on an anonymized forum. I will generally never know if I’m about to speak with an adult, a child, a paid actor, an expert, a liar… I’m not going to use him as an excuse to not say anything. Generally discussions on social media seem pointless when it comes to changing minds, given that there is even less room for empathy than in a real life conversation, but I think they can be informative for people who are not directly involved but are rather just scrolling through to get a feel for others’ opinions. And there’s always a chance you come across someone who has never critically examined their stance and remains open minded enough to do it now.
Plus, I’d love to know! I’d hate to trigger someone by saying something like “another ~10,000 acres of the Amazon rainforest were clear cut today because you can’t stop eating burgers!” So I just need to know what phrases to avoid. It’s a shame to never know :^)
another ~10,000 acres of the Amazon rainforest were clear cut today because you can’t stop eating burgers
can you show me on the map, and tell me the name of the logger?
I forgot to note why I put a * on “and cooking” before.
I absolutely eat meat. I eat all kinds of meat. I eat more kinds of meat that most people are comfortable with. I also eat a much lower quantity than most people from developed countries.
One of my favorite foods is Wienerschnitzel. It’s made from veal and if anyone tried to give me a guilt trip over that, I’d laugh at them, loudly and in their face.
My sister is Vegan and rather than give me shit, she just eats vegan food. So I developed a 100% vegan Wienerschnitzel recipe that is almost indistinguishable from the real thing. I wash flour into wheat gluten (seitan) and flavor it with vegetable broth. Then I roll them out in a pasta roller until they’re the size of tenderized veal. Pick your favorite vegan egg subsitute (it just needs to be sticky), bread it, and fry it up.
I was willing to try a lot of vegan and vegetarian food because it was presented in a positive way. If someone had tried to guilt trip me and insist that I’d go 100% vegan I would just have written them off as a crackpot and never even listened to them.
What’s his name?
Daryl Davis.
I’m neither vegetarian nor vegan. I even worked in a slaughterhouse a few years back. I’m just saying we are smart enough to make ethical choices.
False flag! /s
There’s a difference between protecting yourself from a parasite species which spreads deadly diseases and torturing an intelligent being for no reason. Happy animals taste better, you know.
You were so close, and then fumbled at the last sentence. It doesn’t matter what they taste like, you’re literally just describing torturing them for fun with different words.
I don’t feel 100% confident in the idea that everyone can be vegan. I do encourage everyone to consume as little animal products as is realistic for them, but not everyone is interested in doing so. If the pig has to die I would rather it live a happy life than for it to sit in cramped conditions or a solitary cell with no physical or mental stimulation.
If the pig has to die
But it doesn’t. Why assume killing animals for pleasure must be done?
What I mean is that I don’t have any control over whether it dies. People want to eat it, and they are not amenable to the idea they shouldn’t. But they are amenable to the idea that it shouldn’t be tortured beforehand. Reduction of harm is always good even if it’s not perfect.
I also said I’m not sure that it’s possible for everyone to live healthfully without consuming some animal products. I personally haven’t been able to maintain a vegan diet for longer than two months any of the many times I’ve tried, so I’m not in a position to lecture anyone on what they eat.
Overall, I think a baby steps approach is the most realistically achievable path to a potential future of zero harm. (I don’t say vegan here because I don’t object to symbiotic forms of exploitation such as pet ownership or beekeeping.)
FYI, the user you’re arguing with is a <1d account that has only posted in this thread. I appreciate the effort you’re putting in, for those of us who have a very limited palette of what their body will tolerate. But don’t wear yourself out on an ableist troll.
Meats and cheese are like 10 things. There are thousands of edible plants and fungi to choose from. In the overwhelming majority of cases, this sort of argument is just a lazy rationalization so people can avoid grappling with the consequences of their actions.
It is similarly not ableist to condemn kidnapping people to forcibly harvest their organs for transplants.
They don’t necessarily need to be trolling. I completely understand the passion and don’t exactly disagree with them. Most people aren’t consuming meat as a necessary evil; they’re often consuming it in excess because it’s enjoyable, even when they already understand the horrors of factory farming. It’s upsetting and frustrating and I just want to do what I think is most likely to improve the situation.
Damn that’s crazy, I don’t see anything to indicate that anybody asked. Lemmy must be having some federating issues.
Had me until the last sentence.
No animal deserves to die when humans can get all of their nutrition from fruits, vegetables, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, legumes, and algae.
Except for B12. But then again, most omnivores are deficient in B12 too, and magnesium, zing, K2, etc.
Thankfully going vegan likely means you eat last processed food and more real food, which increases vitamin intake.
Gee gosh what a clever point that nobody has thought of before. You’re the first one! Those silly animal rights people should just give up everything they believe in now that you’ve totally destroyed the logic of what they’ve thought about way to much compared to how much you’ve thought about it. You’ve exposed their hypocrisy. If they can’t do everything exactly perfect, what’s the point of trying to make anything better, right? Anybody that aims for anything less than extremism doesn’t really exist anyway; everybody thinks in black and white. Thank you thank you thank you for your thoughtful contributions on this subject that turns out to be really simple. Everybody else that allows for any sort of nuance is dumb compared to you with your single clever point that brings the whole thing down. Why would anybody even bother going any deeper into this than you already have since you’ve solved the whole thing?
This but unironically.
This isn’t really the gotcha you think it is. Killing mosquitos is self defense, it isn’t comparable in any way to killing innocent animals which have done nothing to you.
In many places mosquitos are not dangerous and are at most annoying. Can I kill an animal because it’s buzzing by my ear? Or should I capture and let it outside?
Neighbours cat meowed at my window, just as annoying as a mosquito if not more. Clearly that’s a justified kill then.
That’s the point, cats and mosquitoes are both animals, but not comparable in the care we have for one of the other, both for affection and simply for how differently complex they are, not becuase we kill mosquitoes in self defense. I don’t knkw much about the vegan phylosophy, but is a mosquito at the same level as a cat? If eating cow patties is offlimits, would mosquito patty also be considered meat?
Not critisizing, just curious
If eating cow patties is offlimits, would mosquito patty also be considered meat?
Yes, insects are animals and their exploitation and/or killing is therefore rejected under veganism.
Most people care more for a mammal than other animals as they are closer related to us. Same way you generally care more about a family member getting in an accident than a stranger. However the vegan philosophy doesn’t dictate anything about this hierarchy. It boils down to: if someone can suffer and feel pain (aka most animals) you should not inflict that on them.
The food industry is usually the main topic as humans can just eat plants (say all major dietician organizations) but instead we gas pigs to death and put chickens in tiny cages their entire lives out of habit, or utter disregard for how they experience that. But the vegan philosophy also rejects animal testing and using an animal purely for entertainment (think zoos).
Got it. I’ll eat the next big cat that attacks me in the savannah.
But yeah, animals doing animal things I guess.
Taking the eggs encourages egg laying which strains the chicken. It also encourages the enslavement of further generations of chickens and the suffocation or grinding up of male chicks.
I grow the males until they start fucking the shit out of the females, and then eat them before the females become bedraggled. they get a chance to explore, fight and fuck, as they are wont to do.
Hens lay eggs all the time, if they’re well-fed. they’ll happily eat mice, or other species, or snake eggs, or whatever they find. they’re not exactly… …kind creatures.
If you isolate them from all other things and treat them as a pet, they’ll take on pet behaviors, like a lot of creatures do. but, that’s not how they naturally behave.
I have no qualms about treating something better than it would treat me, even if it does end up on my dinner plate. But chickens, like any creature, experience. …and as such, we should do our best to give them a decent experience overall.
They don’t naturally behave like anything, as they are artificial. Hens don’t lay eggs all the time. We’ve bred them too, at their peril.
They do naturally behave like something, because they have a nature, and a tendency to behave along certain lines - regardless of whether or not we’ve bred them to be that way.
Hens can lay eggs for a good 13 years in some cases, and can live quite a bit beyond their egg-laying days as well, without peril.
Their peril comes when I decide “I’m going to eat that chicken.” And, I kill the chicken in a lot nicer way, likely, than you or I will die, when we do.
Not sure what your point is, you’d rather be murdered than die naturally? It’s okay to breed individuals if you kill them quickly?
being killed for food by a species that is incomprehensibly more complex than I am, and is also relatively humane is really not too big of a deal in my opinion. Go aliens.
Aye I’m sure you’d be fine with it.
Aye. As fine as anyone can be with the death they get.
You can’t enslave animals.
It’s actually pretty easy, many of them barely fight back
It’s like they know their place.
It’s more like they barely know anything. Like toddlers or something.
Toddlers are basically animals, yeah.
All humans are literally animals but also yes
Yeah you can.
Slavery is the ownership of a person as property, especially in regards to their labour.
Wikipedia.
Animals are persons nowadays?
I don’t need Wikipedia to tell me that animals are persons and not property. Anything that has a conscious perspective has personhood.
I wouldn’t say having consciousness is enough to define a person.
Why?
no
Yes.
Any arguments on why you think that?
They’re not people.
Where have I heard this argument before
are you serious
I think you’ve not spent time around any animal other than human if you think that
