It’s not a perfect measurement, but it creates a metric that is easy to calculate and it’s easy to compare the economies of similar countries or the same country across time.
So does Net Material Product. Why don’t you bring data with those numbers instead of a metric by which an increase in rent costs and healthcare prices makes GDP increase? Ireland GDP for example is fucked up because of the obvious effect of financialization of the economy now that they’re a tax haven. Surely the financialization of the economy has a lot to do? Let’s compare instead stuff like tons of steel produced, number of housing units built, homelessness, access to healthcare, emigration rates… you know, the things actually affecting humans, not “line go up”.
The system that abandoned the rural regions was actually the Soviet Union
Bffffhahahahahha… Oh god, that’s hilarious. How many abandoned rural hospitals are there in your country now that socialism is no more?
rapid industrialization created a massive demand for workers who would abandon the collective farms and move to cities in droves
Smartest section in your comments so far. Yeah, that’s a reality of the situation, but in that process life expectancy of people in the countryside was doubled. The rapid industrialization is a controversial policy of the USSR, I agree, but it’s one not taken out of ideology, it’s one taken out of necessity against external invasion. Famously, in 1931, 2 years after the beginning of collectivization and rapid industrialization, Stalin said in a speech (paraphrasing): “we are 100 years behind the rest of the world, and we need to catch up to them in 10 years. Either we do this, or they kill us”. 10 years later, operation Barbarossa began, in which the Soviet Union saved most of your people from slavery and genocide. This was only possible thanks to the newly-created industrial might, which allowed for example the USSR’s T-34 to be the most manufactured tank in WW2. Had there been no rapid collectivization and industrialization, you wouldn’t have been born because your ancestors would have been entirely genocided by Nazis.
Speaking of your population. Assuming you’re Lithuanian, the population peaked at about 3.7mn in 1990, then dropped to 2.7mn in 2020. Surely capitalism is working wonderfully for your country!
Net Material Product (NMP) was the main macroeconomic indicator
Because nobody uses it anymore?
Let’s compare instead stuff like tons of steel produced,
Why would you measure steel production in a country with no iron or coal mining?
number of housing units built, homelessness, access to healthcare, emigration rates… you know, the things actually affecting humans, not “line go up”.
I could try to find some data for you to cherry pick and make conclusions that agree with your ideology but at this point, why would I bother?
Stalin said in a speech
Stalin also purged a lot of competent people and that made Hitler attack earlier too.
Soviet Union saved most of your people from slavery and genocide.
Just so he could do his own slavery and genocide?
Had there been no rapid collectivization and industrialization, you wouldn’t have been born because your ancestors would have been entirely genocided by Nazis.
It’s easy to claim what would happen if something didn’t, but fundamentally we will never know. If Stalin didn’t do his purges or if Germany overextended into Siberia, or if Hitler was replaced with a less crazy leader. I could use the same argument: I’m sorry if you think I’m stupid, the teachers of my teachers died in Siberia.
Surely capitalism is working wonderfully for your country!
It is. Of the million people who left, 200-300K were ethnic minorities, especially Soviet colonists, despite that unlike other Baltic states, we offered them Lithuanian citizenship. Nobody misses them.
Of the rest, a lot of people still have ties to this country and send back money, sometimes buy property. The 2000-2007 economic boom was mostly caused by that money. Also, our migration statistics are improving. Migration from third countries is increasing rapidly too.
Net migration to and from Lithuania:
Re-immigration (green) vs immigration (blue) by foreigners:
Except it’s not even capitalism as you imagine it. We still have a lot of regulations, high taxation, massive safety nets, affordable education and the means to buy property. Lithuania is a poor country that is getting richer.
Most of you ”socialists that defend Soviet Union" are from rich countries that are getting poorer. But socialism as imagined by Soviet Union was a horrible system made by horrible people and it will not save you.
And every time you use the example of Soviet Union as an example of how great socialism is, your cause actually loses.
200-300K were ethnic minorities, especially Soviet colonists, despite that unlike other Baltic states, we offered them Lithuanian citizenship. Nobody misses them.
Aaaand that’s where we stop. I don’t discuss socialism with overtly racist people. There’s no point arguing in good faith against people guided by racist beliefs. Burn in hell, bigot prick. I pray that the next time fascist want to exterminate you and your family you won’t have alienated everyone who might protect you.
Should the people who were colonised mourn when colonisers return home?
I’m not racist in any way, shape or form. I have friends from every corner of the globe.
Burn in hell, bigot prick. I pray that the next time fascist want to exterminate you and your family you won’t have alienated everyone who might protect you.
And the next time the socialist revolution comes, I hope the purges come for you, too.
So does Net Material Product. Why don’t you bring data with those numbers instead of a metric by which an increase in rent costs and healthcare prices makes GDP increase? Ireland GDP for example is fucked up because of the obvious effect of financialization of the economy now that they’re a tax haven. Surely the financialization of the economy has a lot to do? Let’s compare instead stuff like tons of steel produced, number of housing units built, homelessness, access to healthcare, emigration rates… you know, the things actually affecting humans, not “line go up”.
Bffffhahahahahha… Oh god, that’s hilarious. How many abandoned rural hospitals are there in your country now that socialism is no more?
Smartest section in your comments so far. Yeah, that’s a reality of the situation, but in that process life expectancy of people in the countryside was doubled. The rapid industrialization is a controversial policy of the USSR, I agree, but it’s one not taken out of ideology, it’s one taken out of necessity against external invasion. Famously, in 1931, 2 years after the beginning of collectivization and rapid industrialization, Stalin said in a speech (paraphrasing): “we are 100 years behind the rest of the world, and we need to catch up to them in 10 years. Either we do this, or they kill us”. 10 years later, operation Barbarossa began, in which the Soviet Union saved most of your people from slavery and genocide. This was only possible thanks to the newly-created industrial might, which allowed for example the USSR’s T-34 to be the most manufactured tank in WW2. Had there been no rapid collectivization and industrialization, you wouldn’t have been born because your ancestors would have been entirely genocided by Nazis.
Speaking of your population. Assuming you’re Lithuanian, the population peaked at about 3.7mn in 1990, then dropped to 2.7mn in 2020. Surely capitalism is working wonderfully for your country!
Because nobody uses it anymore?
Why would you measure steel production in a country with no iron or coal mining?
I could try to find some data for you to cherry pick and make conclusions that agree with your ideology but at this point, why would I bother?
Stalin also purged a lot of competent people and that made Hitler attack earlier too.
Just so he could do his own slavery and genocide?
It’s easy to claim what would happen if something didn’t, but fundamentally we will never know. If Stalin didn’t do his purges or if Germany overextended into Siberia, or if Hitler was replaced with a less crazy leader. I could use the same argument: I’m sorry if you think I’m stupid, the teachers of my teachers died in Siberia.
It is. Of the million people who left, 200-300K were ethnic minorities, especially Soviet colonists, despite that unlike other Baltic states, we offered them Lithuanian citizenship. Nobody misses them.
Of the rest, a lot of people still have ties to this country and send back money, sometimes buy property. The 2000-2007 economic boom was mostly caused by that money. Also, our migration statistics are improving. Migration from third countries is increasing rapidly too.
Net migration to and from Lithuania:
Re-immigration (green) vs immigration (blue) by foreigners:
Except it’s not even capitalism as you imagine it. We still have a lot of regulations, high taxation, massive safety nets, affordable education and the means to buy property. Lithuania is a poor country that is getting richer.
Most of you ”socialists that defend Soviet Union" are from rich countries that are getting poorer. But socialism as imagined by Soviet Union was a horrible system made by horrible people and it will not save you.
And every time you use the example of Soviet Union as an example of how great socialism is, your cause actually loses.
Aaaand that’s where we stop. I don’t discuss socialism with overtly racist people. There’s no point arguing in good faith against people guided by racist beliefs. Burn in hell, bigot prick. I pray that the next time fascist want to exterminate you and your family you won’t have alienated everyone who might protect you.
Should the people who were colonised mourn when colonisers return home?
I’m not racist in any way, shape or form. I have friends from every corner of the globe.
And the next time the socialist revolution comes, I hope the purges come for you, too.