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YouTube’s Loaded With EV Disinformation::When it comes to articles on a website like CleanTechnica, there are two kinds of articles. First, there are the … [continued]
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YouTube’s loaded with disinformation about everything. Especially egregious are the awful ads YouTube runs about scammy health cures and devices.
Which is why we need downvote buttons by default for those videos. People say it’s unnecessary, but you at least have to let the upvotes go to zero if there are that many downvotes.
Only YouTube says downvotes are unnecessary, users want them back and never wanted them removed.
We need laws that make it illegal to disinform people for profit.
There are, and have been, but Republicans constantly work to repeal them, calling it ‘deregulation’.
Businesses would sell you cyanide and call it a weight-loss miracle cure if the laws didn’t prevent it.
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“Use this eye mask to protect you from 5g while you sleep” yes, such a thing existed, and it was removed from amazon for putting out harmful radiation.
And don’t forget that mr Beast is gifting all his subscribers 100$ if you just send a pic of your social security card
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Why do you believe that? And are you ok with the consequences of that? What’s your solution?
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You can’t see how that might be problematic!?
Stop being condescending. I asked an open question to give you ample opportunity to elaborate without presumption.
We’re talking about removing misinformation and flat out lies, not “being the arbiters of truth” as if someone where to control a narrative from behind the curtain. I know the Fediverse gets its underwear pretty wet on that one and it’s sometimes absurd to the point of being obnoxious.
Debunking has been a exercise on the internet for a long time and there are plenty of third parties that are quite reliable. YouTube already incorporates that to a degree and it’s not a foreign concept. There is plenty of popular and blatant material on there that could easily be subject to review without going to ridiculously extreme scrutiny that paralyzes all our thoughts and actions.
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I agree with tech oligarchs should not be arbiters of truth. But I’m concerned about them using that power to sensor critics. Like if a whistle blower called out a Twitter manager as a pedophile. What’s stopping Twitter from using it’s arbiter of truth power to convince everyone that information is false. But I also recognize that there are more commonly scammers who make false claims on Twitter and not getting them taken down will result in potential harm to random people. I think there should be a third party fact checking system but then you have the same problem of potential bad actors abusing systems to shift information to profit themselves. So I guess the best I can think of right now is a flagging system. Ultimately Im growing more and more to think the rute of the misinformation problem is that humanity is just getting worse and worse. We are leaving in a word with a population of good people decreasing while caluss people who just want take what they can become more common. We need more good people and not good as in you believe the right thing but good as in you believe what you believe that sertan things are bad and others are good. Not just blindly believing one group is ideal and can do no wrong even when they contradict themselves. Just look at our partys what does it mean to be Republican and what does it mean to be Democrat. They both exist to contradict the other. There is no mission accomplished on ether side, only we won this battle, onto the next one.
To be fair EVs only solve the tail pipe emission problem of cars and not like the 50 others. It’s would be much better to focus on public transit and pedestrian and bike infrastructure, that solves more issues and is accessible to everyone.
They solve tailpipe emissions AND all the emissions associated with mining, refining and transporting the fuel - which is enormous and usually left out of the calculations. Public transportation / walkable infrastructure is god-tier but lots of people live away from dense neighbourhoods. Ev’s are not a golden bullet solution to climate change but they’re pretty good and neither is anything else. It makes sense to attack the issue from as many angles as possible instead of getting all tunnel-vision about one particular solution.
but lots of people live away from dense neighbourhoods.
then we should focus on creating a 15 minute city
This takes time and a lot more money. It’s something we should do in parallel, but even if we started this today, any EV sold in the next decade would be long off the road before sizable impactful progress had been made on 15min cities.
all the emissions associated with mining, refining and transporting the fuel
Not trying to be pedantic… But, EVs have the same essential issue, their batteries require the same mining, refining, and transportation process as any other powered vehicle. And if your electricity isn’t sourced from renewables, you’re just kicking the problem down the road.
And if your electricity isn’t sourced from renewables, you’re just kicking the problem down the road.
Partially. With the exception of maybe coal, fossil fuel energy plants are more carbon efficient than an internal combustion engine can be just due to difference in scale.
The better option is to have it powered through 100% renewable, but it isn’t an automatic lost cause.
To be fair EVs only solve the tail pipe emission problem
Gotta start somewhere. At least I can say that I’m part of the solution and that I am not one of the negative nellies who don’t do squat because they cannot find the ONE solution that solves everything.
gotta start somewhere
Then start with vastly increasing the amount of bicycle Infrastructure so that people can safely use their bike to go to schools, work, home, buy groceries. Give subsidies to buy bikes for even less money than they cost anyway, increase taxes on shit cars like pick tricks that nobody needs in a city setting
Invest heavily in public transportation. Make busses actually useful, start making an actual rail infrastructure in the US instead of… Whatever that turtle crap is you have now.
Same for walking, which would require overhauling urbanisation laws, granted, but still, that would also make your cities actually nice to live in.
If you think that all is an impossibly expensive job then please be reminded that gasoline is heavily subsidized and bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure costs pennies on the dollar compared to car infrastructure.
Biggest issue is stopping the oil and car manufacturer lobbyists who will all stop all of this. Why have nice cities that make big money and recover your environment if thateans that a couple of rich guys will get less rich?
The transition from EVs to public transit, biking, etc has to come eventually, too. We can however already do that and places have successfully done so. Look at the Netherlands for example. EVs are in the way of transitioning to better public infrastructure and will only delay it.
Believe it or not but the “ONE solution that solves everything” is already here. It’s right in the comment you responded to. Not only does public transport and bike infrastructure cut massively down on CO2 it also helps with mental health as we aren’t constantly 10+ miles away from each other but we also aren’t getting constantly frustrated with driving or isolated. And not to mention with having everyone closer together wel also have room for car guys to hoon about in race tracks. And because ideally the only people driving would be car guys they’d be quite the minority and the emissions from that would be minimal anyway. There’s almost 0 downsides to walkable cities. Even car guys have something to gain from this. Well finally get to the point that we can focus on the CO2 dumps that are airplanes.
This is what I keep saying, as a gear head. So many people who like cars hate public transport, but they don’t understand that getting people who don’t like to drive off the roads would only make driving better. Also, the only roads that might (and should) close would be in city centers, places it sucks to drive anyways.
It’s would be much better to focus on public transit and pedestrian and bike infrastructure, that solves more issues and is accessible to everyone.
Or both…?
infrastructure and public transit solve the same issue but infinitely better while EVs are accessible only for people with enough disposable income and are comparably very bad at helping with climate change so I’d rather focus on a more accessible solution that helps more.
In my country people buy used cars pretty much always because of cost and used EVs aren’t really a thing I have seen. There also aren’t many charging stations and local power is mostly produced from oil shale so EVs do squat to help with anything. Public transit on the other hand is easy to advocate for because it’s widely used and most people prefer the tram over car in my city already which is like the best form of transportation over short distances.
They also introduce their own share of issues like increased road wear due to weight and environmental costs from the mining of rare metals like cobalt and lithium.
With the fact that vehicle size is generally trending towards larger, at least stateside; we’re looking at a situation where those shiny electric pick up trucks that need a battery that’s four to eight times larger than a compacts or sedans battery are going to require further scaling of rare metal mining and are going to result in vehicles that blow way past the weight of anything our roads were designed to handle. Public transit is just far more sustainable. Trains can be hooked directly to a grid so no ridiculously heavy battery, buses carry the same number of people on a road that it would take… Let’s be generous… 30 cars, so even if they were using a cell larger than a pick up truck, their wear would be far lower than the 30 or so cars they could replace.
Of course the issue with America is we’ve got bigger fish to fry like boys who kiss boys and people who want to fuck without having kids.
In terms of mining they kinda shifts it around, because gasoline cars also use rare metals (although smaller volumes). Weight depends, the batteries certainly need to be larger (currently) but motors are smaller and you ditch a lot of mechanics.
But public transit is definitely better overall
youtube’s loaded with
EVdisinformation…In other news, sky’s still blue.
Twitter isn’t blue anymore. It’s black like Elon Musk’s heart.
EV marketing is also full of misinformation, like net zero.
But they are planting trees!!!1!
I am against cars getting more like everyday electronic gadgets. Why do you need a selfie camera inside it? Also who attends zoom calls in it? Evs are notorious for doing so. Not to mention all the privacy concerns over the data these smartcars collect.
Tesla has a game system on its huge touchscreen panel. At least you have to be parked to use it, but that’s still fucking stupid.
I don’t like or understand it therefore it is stupid.
My wife played some Fallout Shelter while we were in the carwash one time. I played some arcade game while in the waiting with my daugher while the wife was inside the store getting some groceries. It’s pretty neat. And when we go on a roadtrip next summer it might be nice to play a game of chess while charging.
It’s a car. Use your phone or something. Cars aren’t game systems.
It’s a car. Use your phone or something. Cars aren’t game systems.
AKA …
Bah Fucking Humbug!
Nothing wrong with playing a video game (or watch a show/movie) in a car while you’re waiting for somebody in the store. Doesn’t matter which device it’s being played on.
It’s stupid
It’s completely out of your way if you don’t go looking for it. For those that enjoy it it is great. Too bad you are so close minded and simple you can not see other people’s point of view. How limiting it must be for you.
I worry about features in cars.
For example, our Mazda has headlights that turn with the steering wheel (ala Tucker Torpedo’s center light). Neat idea and it is a useful feature while driving at night on the rural roads by our house. But what will happen when it fails, and how much will they cost to replace? (I’ve been told they “fail straight ahead”, but who really knows for sure. I’m hoping we get rid of the car before that happens.)
I saw a pickup with automatic folding mirrors having an issue with them folding and unfolding while the guy was driving. I followed him through several traffic lights and watched it happen a few times. Automatic folding mirrors would be a nice feature on my pickup, but I’d rather not have them fail especially when I’m towing a trailer and be completely blind to the rear-right.
I’ve seen pickups with the running bar that folds out. I’m not sure there’s much value in that other than “oooh shiny” but if it fails to open while I’m getting out, it could hurt.
Our Mazda again has several software bugs in the infotainment system. None of these are critical, but it does make me wonder how much testing they did on the software that controls the brakes, for example. Are the brakes going to fail to release someday? I already know the computer has some control of them, because of the auto-hold feature that I usually keep turned off, and because I sometimes notice a slight delay in releasing the brakes when I take my foot off the pedal.
The FCA Uconnect 8.4 infotainment systems allowed an attacker to remotely take over throttle, brakes, etc. until they were patched. That’s an obvious safety issue.
And that crash at the Peace Bridge last week, it seems very likely it was caused by an issue with the car, rather than the driver (there is evidence the driver was alert and trying to stop, and he swerved around another car that turned in front of him before the crash). Turns out the right-hand drive version of that car had a recall of an issue with the accelerator…which supposedly did not effect left-hand drive vehicles. But here we are with two people dead and a third injured from a vehicle that may have been accelerating out of control through no fault of the driver.
The point is that including additional features, even if only software, increases the complexity of the system and makes errors more likely. It increases the chances of some unexpected interaction or failure. It increases the surface of a software attack for a potential safety issue. It makes the code that much harder to test for bugs in general and security in particular.
You speak as if there’s never been any recalls of cars in the past, before they had electronic and computer systems in them.
My Ford Explorer trunk door almost fell on my head and killed me. It’s tires shredded while driving on the freeway at high speeds, almost killing me and my family, twice. Neither of those had electronics or computer parts.
I don’t think you’ll have any car manufactured anymore that’s not complex, it’s just part of what happens over time, new technology is taken advantage of in the manufacturing of products.
Any idiot with a camera can put videos on YT so I’m not surprised. There’s misinformation about literally everything on there or any other platform that doesn’t restrict who can post. When the hell did news become nothing more than stating the obvious?
Don’t even need a camera
Some of the criticism is perfectly valid, frankly. I’m hyped for EVs but there’s a lot of work to be done before they’re really competitive. Glossing over glaring issues isn’t doing anyone any favors.
Aging wheels did a great video on the charging station problem. He drove a Polaris and a Tesla on the same route and demonstrated really well how unreliable charging stations are, unless you have a Tesla. This guy loves electric cars and has been reluctant to actually recommend any.
That problem is going to be addressed as American manufacturers adopt Tesla as a standard, but that won’t happen for two model years at least.
And in the long run, they won’t address climate change in any meaningful way either. We’ve just exchanged one resource disaster for another, and there’s far less rare earth minerals than there is oil. And we’ll still need oil. The only way we’re doing that is by massively overhauling every city and going away from any individualized transportation larger than a bike.
Honestly it’s the other way around. Most of the downsides are vastly overstated in my experience, and people don’t really grasp how nice it is to never visit a gas station and always have a full tank to start the day, until they are living it. If you have the ability to charge at home and aren’t making 1000 mile trips very often, there is basically no reason to not have an EV.
The first question I always get about my EV is “how long does it take to charge?” Most people can’t wrap their head around the concept of waking up every day with a full battery.
And also that they are probably stopping for around 20 minutes every 300 miles on road trips anyway. A certain 450 mile trip I have make several times per year for two decades takes me about 20-30 minutes longer in an EV vs my previous 35mpg vehicle. There are just a bunch of these small cognitive blindspots people have about their own driving habits that you see repeated over and over again.
We must stop all EV development until they’re good enough to serve the small percentage of people who drive 700 miles at once, pee in a bottle, and eat sandwiches they prepared ahead of time. Think of all the bottle urinators being left behind.
Seriously, I don’t think there’s a good reason to have ranges much over 400 miles. If you work out a highway speed of 70mph, charge to 80% at each stop (which is significantly faster than going to 100%), and add some margin for cold days, then about 400 miles is around the max you need considering you’ll want a break, anyway.
If there’s battery improvements to throw on top of that, then use them to reduce weight, not increase range.
the small percentage of people who drive 700 miles at once
Those people should drive cars that run on biodiesel.
Or EVs with biodiesel range extender generators
Yep. I stop for 20 or so minutes every 200 or so miles, and honestly I’m stretching it to go that long because my wife and kid want to stop even more often. I spend basically 0 extra time road tripping in my EV unless it’s a holiday weekend and the charger is packed.
“About as long as I’m charging my phone, and at around the same time: while I sleep, so who cares? It’s full when I wake up.”
I mostly agree with you, but there is barrier to entry cost.
The ability to charge at home is a big hurdle for most people, basically if you live in an apartment that’s something you can’t do.
I dunno man, the 5 minutes a week at a gas station doesn’t really seem like that much of an inconvenience. Especially if you live in a state that taxes EVs more than gas cars, my home state taxes EVs so heavily that it’s more expensive, even with fuel costs considered.
Winter and summer conditions are also an issue where I live, temps from very cold to very hot, sometimes within the same week, and the fact that most of the people who live around me who can afford an EV, are in fact taking routine road trips. Often to go camping where EV support is pretty minimal. Meaning at minimum, 1 car cannot be an EV.
Like, I get it. I’ve been trying to convince my wife to let me buy a sprinter van EV. Because you can’t get a decent pick up truck EV for a reasonable price. And even if you could you’re locked in to one of those giant 4 door monstrosities with a minimum sized bed.
We’re not even going to talk about the horrifying lack of an affordable station wagon EV, at least in the US (Peugeot’s got one coming in Europe at least), honestly that’s the biggest crime here.
The biggest complaint I have about the current lot of EVs is that they’re almost all trucks and SUVs. The manufacturers focused on the most profitable market segment first. Then, they make almost no units of the base model that’s advertised for ~$45k. Only one’s available are the top trims that go for $60k or $75k. Maybe more. Then they wonder why nobody is buying their EVs.
I want a hot hatch EV. Mustang Mach-E kinda is, but not quite right (and you’ll get plenty of sneering comments from Mustang fans of yore). Hyundai has some stuff, but also not quite right. My wife has the Mini EV, and that’s fun to drive, but its range is limited (and also FWD, which Mini will always do for historical reasons). VW apparently has a version of the Golf GTI coming out in a few years. So I’m sitting here waiting.
That’s my biggest complaint as someone driving a 14 year old Honda Fit, I just want a barebones hot hatch EV without all the fancy computer stuff, a car that’s a car and not trying to be a spaceship with bells and whistles. And I know a lot of people with EVs, we have free charging stations at my workplace, but I barely drive (once a week in office, errands, live in country and get everything delivered) so why would I spend over 60k in Canadian dollars for shittier version of what I already have. I could lease but that’s another monthly bill, I’m only paying like $120/mo to keep my current car on the road and that includes gas and insurance, I can maintain my car myself with incredibly cheap scrap parts as well. Also any EV I could afford, I’d have to rent utility vans to do half my errands with or keep a second vehicle, and like you say with the Mini EV the range isn’t quite there. I wired my shop/garage with service for an EV charger so I’m ready for it, I just can’t justify it with the current offerings.
If you have the ability to charge at home and aren’t making 1000 mile trips very often, there is basically no reason to not have an EV.
Well, except for reasons not to have any car at all, of course.
Was the cost benefit worth it? How much more did you pay for the EV? Did you do it to reduce your carbon footprint and if so have you evaluated how dirty your local grid is (the remote combustion fallacy of EVs)?
I think the bigger issue with EVs (at least in the USA) is that there’s a huge gap between what EV’s actually are and what EV industry players are claiming EV’s are and can be. It makes EV conversations divisive and ripe for misinformation.
This idea that batteries should ever be used in trucking and heavy machinery (before massive boosts to battery capacity and sustainability/recycling) is a total crock of shit. The idea that you’re doing the environment or yourself a favor by buying an electrified SUV or truck is a crock of shit. Buying a vehicle with 250mi+ of range using today’s battery tech is bad for the environment.
Small to medium sized commuter vehicles and delivery vans/fleet vehicles with < 50kWh batteries are prime EV candidates. EV buyers need to charge at home and drivers need to change their behavior, not chase 300 miles of range at the expense of the environment.
Everything else is better off with a hybrid engine for the very distant foreseeable future.
Instead, buyers are unloading perfectly good ICE vehicles for EV’s with 100kWh+ batteries and companies like Tesla are destroying the credibility of the EV industry with their stupid stunts and ridiculous EV semi claims. Others are making a bad problem worse by ratcheting up the consumerism and disposability of vehicles in the EV space by building premium vehicles that are inevitable purchased as a second or third car, completely negating any environmental benefit of the vehicle.
These buyers and industry players are making EV’s easy targets for an anti-EV crowd which wants to undermine the truly green and sustainable aspects of an automotive technology shift.
Pretty much all of the arguments against EVs from the right are solvable. There are arguments against them that are also unique from the left, but I’ve seen too many leftists adopt some of the bullshit arguments from the right.
Charging does need to improve. Believe me, I drove a Mini EV from Madison to Chicago once, and it was a nightmare to find two working stations along the way. But this is solvable with time. At least, it is when you’re presenting it honestly, and not “haha EVs suck ROOOOLLL COOAAAALLLL!”
They’re a huge facet to fixing climate change. Mining issues are not part of climate change. Burning petroleum is.
The problems with lithium mining do exist (and in ways that are less hypocritical for the left to point out than the right), but it’s also not permanent. There’s an interesting string technique that, assuming it can be scaled up, can use far less land and open up more reserves (that being the amount of lithium that can be economically mined, which people often mistake for the amount of lithium actually there). Even if it doesn’t, oceanic methods of extraction are being ramped up already, and there’s more lithium available there then we’d have a use for.
All that’s even assuming we stay on lithium batteries, or that we won’t reduce the amount of lithium per kwh.
Now, there’s another set of arguments–the kind conservatives would never touch–which get into how cars are bad for society regardless of what they run on. They take up tons of space just sitting there, they enable urban sprawl, they hit pedestrians and animals, and are all around an inefficient way to move your moist meat flesh around. These are why I did an e-bike conversion recently and am looking to heavily reduce my car reliance.
But we’re stuck with them to a certain extent. There are decisions literally set in concrete about where people live and where they work. Even with the most radical government imaginable, we could not rip our cities up and lay new concrete without releasing so much CO2 that we might as well drive ICE cars for an additional decade.
Getting rid of cars is not on the table, at least not in any reasonable timeframe. That said, what can we do to get American cities from <5% bike commuters to 25%? That alone would be massive.
Now, there’s another set of arguments–the kind conservatives would never touch–which get into how cars are bad for society regardless of what they run on. They take up tons of space just sitting there, they enable urban sprawl, they hit pedestrians and animals, and are all around an inefficient way to move your moist meat flesh around. These are way I did an e-bike conversion recently and am looking to heavily reduce my car reliance.
As far as I’m concerned, this is the only valid argument against electric cars (and combustion ones, of course) – but boy, is it a doozy!
Unlike oil, rare earth minerals can be recycled to a degree. What is today your car battery may end up in 10+ years as someone’s house battery, or a power bank or other low-load energy store. The raw materials can eventually be recovered to an extent as well.
A resource disaster is inevitable either way as nobody wants to give up the convenience that we have become accustomed to. Encouraging affluent economies to adopt EVs is pure damage limitation at this point, our biosphere is already fucked from over a century of waste emissions, the least we can do is try and find solutions that don’t involve burning fossilized plant matter for every car journey.
He chose a fairly slow charging CCS car vs a Tesla. That video was super slanted.
Half the stations he stopped at with the polestar didn’t work properly. That’s not slant, it’s bad stations.
This thread and Lemmy as a whole is filled with EV zealots. Don’t bother. I’m a fan of the tech but mention anything slightly critical of the state of EVs today or the viability or sustainability of the current EV strategy from a country or auto maker and you get flooded with downvotes and called an oil shill.
Even this article is a bit slanted. CNBC running a story about EV stock piling up is not anti-EV propaganda. It’s a literal fact, not to mention CNBC’s cable programming has been shilling Tesla and luxury EV makers for years.
Something I don’t think is really talked about in tandem but should be is the “tech” side of things. There’s a massive race to go as proprietary as possible none of this crap is easily serviceable by people. The tech that they put in most of these cars is cheap garbage. I don’t want some tablet with what is probably a fork of Android controlling my vehicle. First I know support for it is going to go out the window and I don’t want to have to think about software security for my damn car.
Then you have these companies that are putting features that are in the car behind subscriptions because the car can now support subscription model. I don’t want always online DRM for the DLC for my goddamn car.
Newsflash — Tesla is opening its stations to all EVs. Guess that solves the “unless you have a Tesla” problem.
Only on EV? It’s hard to find reliable informacion between 99% influencer crap and bullshit. YT is good for music and some movies which someone had uploaded, little else.
There’s plenty of good quality content on YouTube but you actually have to subscribe to the good stuff. If you would like exclusively on the recommended videos you’ll watch utter crap
