• ameancow@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Last presidential election had the highest turnout of voters and youth voters in American history.

      Our problem is much more depressing and much more deeply baked-in.

      • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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        20 hours ago

        The Trump/ Putin/ Musk cabal rigged the election, and we ALL know it.

        He won EVERY swing state? Puh-leeeze. I’ve got good Critical Thinking Skills, and they have been screeching in my brain ever since Election Day 2024.

        • ameancow@lemmy.world
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          8 hours ago

          Unfortunately, we have an entire civilization with “screeching messages” in their ears right now, we have a population largely reactive and only thinking that they’re thinking, people are fed nonsense, a deluge of headlines that blur reality and fantasy. I have to explain to people working in my team in the morning huddles when they are chatting that no, we did not in fact discover Atlantis and a mermaid kingdom. No, there are no giant floating eyeballs in space. We did not discover a city on Mars, aliens have (as far as we know) NOT been in contact with anyone, much less politicians. When media and headlines on stories are designed to sensationalize, people stop paying attention and stop believing anything but what they want to hear, and you can change people’s ideas what they want to hear.

          I’m quite sure efforts were made to swing the election manually, via voting machines and ballots, maybe those efforts made a difference, but a lot of people who have never been involved in the logistics of voting in a country this size have no concept of how hard it is to rig. Remember, this was part of the huge contention with Trump when he lost in 2020, he claimed fraud and because of those claims everyone got a better glimpse into how secure the US’s elections are. They are secure simply because the scale of the operation needed to change results is staggering.

          I’m not saying you’re entirely wrong, but I think the election was stolen via more subtle and broad, sweeping methods, which is more efficient and less easy to track down individuals responsible - I am talking large-scale social engineering. It doesn’t take a lot and it doesn’t give back a lot, but it can be enough to turn a tide, it can be enough to shift perspectives just enough, it can be enough to capitalize on public mistrust and frustration and it can select for the people most vulnerable to specific, tailored messaging.

          And this was before AI was what it is today, I expect the next elections are going to be even more baffling.

        • ameancow@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          That’s probably accurate but not unusual, it still had some of the highest turnout in history and the data backs this up, we didn’t have as much of turnout problem as an attention span and informed voter problem.

          The problem was more revealed in exit polling determining that people largely didn’t see a difference between candidates, saw no difference between Harris and Biden (kinda true) but saw Trump as a “lets see how he does” option because he wasn’t in charge when egg prices went up.

          Studies have shown the Trump beat out Dems in all categories and it has a lot to do with people largely losing interest in politics and just marginally paying attention to social media propaganda, which skews heavily right. Financial uncertainty often pushes populations towards conservatism and authoritarian leaders, and Dems are very, very bad at this kind of populism.

          • SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 day ago

            Excuse me, but HOW THE FUCK do you LOSE INTEREST in politics?!

            Is there too much lead in people’s food or something?

            • ameancow@lemmy.world
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              21 hours ago

              Almost everything has become media entertainment, media is about capturing attention-spans because attention is monetized via commercials and clicks on affiliates and the like. This has led to an arms-race in grabbing attention faster and faster, so now the general population, and I mean MOST people, pay less attention to anything that requires patience or does not provide immediate dopamine hits.

              This is just the state we’re in, it’s widespread and it’s a massive problem and AI is making it even worse every day.

              The average grade-school teacher reports they have to design curriculums around 3 - 7 minutes maximum attention-spans, that anything more than a few minutes at a time and kids will start fidgeting, looking around and acting disinterested, nor can teachers even give kids homework anymore because they use ChatGTP to finish it most of the time. Adults aren’t in much better shape. About a full quarter of America’s adult population are functionally illiterate, meaning while they can usually work out words and text messages via context, they can’t read an article or a book, they can’t assemble paragraphs to form narration in their minds.

              This is why we’re in this mess right now, because many people are exploiting this trend and only a handful of people are raising awareness about it and trying to get us broadly to put the electronic devices down. Which nobody wants to do, nor can we all do because of the need to use smartphones and computers in our daily lives.

            • ameancow@lemmy.world
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              21 hours ago

              Also, even if you’re not counting the large swath of the population who are chronically attention-span handicapped, the average middle-class American family has to work 6 - 7 days a week to support the increasing costs of raising families and having homes.

              Most of these people don’t watch the news, they barely have time to watch a disney movie with their kids Sunday night before browsing social media for 30 minutes and going to bed to start the week all over. People are incredibly overworked and distracted. Politics doesn’t seem to touch you in this kind of life because the US protects the middle-class to some degree, as long as you’re putting in your 80 - 100 hours of work each week between yourself and your partner, you will just barely make the bills and expenses, you will have just enough for expenses and never enough to stop or take a break.

              These families are good people, they just don’t have a margin in their life to care about politics. This is the system that’s been engineered to keep people from mobilizing and working together.

            • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 day ago

              I don’t mean to be mean, but you need to talk to more people.

              A lot of people in America simply do not believe they can change anything. Either because they don’t know how, they’ve never shown up to a town hall, or because the only politics they hear about are from states and federal buildings they’ll never live or work in, or because the only politics they hear about outside of Trump being a dipshit is some 2% thing that will do something which might lead to something else maybe, or because South Park taught them that caring about anything is cringe and, actually, the smartest people spend all day making fun of anyone with an idea.

              I mean, let me ask another question: how the fuck do you lose interest in unions? And yet, the US lost interest a looong time ago.

              • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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                21 hours ago

                It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy. Things don’t change because they don’t participate. They don’t participate because things didn’t change.

                90% of things people claim are the reason they don’t vote could be changed if they fucking voted.

                • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  18 hours ago

                  There is an element of people wanting their fast food and being displeased that civil rights took multiple decades to build.

                  That said, it isn’t just their fault. The Democrats, generally, do not know how to be exciting. As much as people say they’re not interested, it’s not entirely true; there is a spark that has yet to be ignited.

            • rumba@lemmy.zip
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              1 day ago

              Mostly they just want both sides to burn down and be replaced with something less horrible

              But the right has enough supporters to win.

              And at this point, short of the SCOTUS getting overthrown before the finish, ushering in fascism, all the politics are just arranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

              • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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                21 hours ago

                A bit a of a childish all-or-nothing argument.

                They can keep hoping for unattainable perfection. In the meantime, others are happy to take power.

                • rumba@lemmy.zip
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                  9 hours ago

                  A bit a of a childish all-or-nothing argument.

                  Ohh screw that. We’ve got a bunch of sleepers in the left that they activate everytime the fucking race gets close, 90% of the left is complicit, selfish and owned. There’s nothing going on in the governemnt right now that’s ok and getting the left back in won’t change shit.

                  We need accountability, checks and balances and the scotus needs guaranteed representation

                  childish my ass, keep hoping for things to just get better and stay as they are or go back a couple years and watch it collaps around you. That’s myopic and a pipe dream

      • mriormro@lemmy.zip
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        20 hours ago

        Those that chose not to vote are absolutely responsible for this.

        You’re not going to wriggle out of culpability.

        • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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          18 hours ago

          I did vote, so let’s dispense with that false self-righteousness at the top.

          Sure lots of people didn’t vote, but that happens in every election. There were more votes than ever before, so this election actually had FEWER non-voters than ever before.

          They contributed, but they are not fully RESPONSIBLE for it. The Biden administration let MAGA run wild, instead of declaring it a domestic terrorist operation, and a serious national security threat, and rounded up ALL of their treasonous leaders, including propagandists like Rupert Murdoch and Steve Bannon, and sending them to Gitmo for extensive interrogation.

          The Biden administration allowed them to work their election fraud strategies in the wide open, as we saw it all happening before our eyes. They even admitted to it over and over as it was going on, and the Biden administration did less than nothing to combat it. That was far more destructive than FEWER non-voters than any previous election.

          You can’t allow MAGA to steal the election, and then blame ourselves for their crimes.

          • mriormro@lemmy.zip
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            15 hours ago

            That’s a lot of words to say that you don’t know how to hold people accountable.

    • Aneb@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      All the people who did vote for the cheeto are responsible as well. And I think that was the point, marriage equality was on the ballot 14 years after the supreme court ruling

      • blakemiller@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        The point I think is that this was largely preventable from within our own ranks. Because we didn’t turn out, the minority was allowed to rule. Yes, the minority is responsible but they were a forgone conclusion. Inaction on the left allowed a preventable outcome to occur.

          • Soulg@ani.social
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            1 day ago

            They are the left party in the us, fuck off with this worthless game

            • Aneb@lemmy.world
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              19 hours ago

              Wow I’m surprised you got down voted. Objectively the Democratic party represents the Left. Whether the Left has any better choices is not their fault, fucking spineless politicians eroded our faith that Democrats could do good for the country. America is a two party system unfortunately, and unfairly, so to anyone who down voted you… Does the Republican party represent the Left? Fuck no, and fuck off. I’m a progressive but thats not party affiliation

    • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      At some point we need to tell the “internet people who tell us who to blame” that hillary would have won in 2016 if not for the electoral college. At some point people just give up and that was the entire democratic party in 2024.

      Not a single person in the democrats has a plan to fix democracy in the US and until they do the gerrymandering, electoral college and republican rule by minority will continue

      • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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        21 hours ago

        At some point people just give up

        Why? They won in 2020…

        Did you all fucking forget or something?

        Keep waiting for perfection, dumbass. Meanwhile, Republicans are destroying the country.

        • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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          14 hours ago

          2020 was only winnable for biden because trump fucked up covid so bad. The media hole is so assymmetric that a solid 25% of the US population (including donald trump, because this shit works on him too) believe biden was president in 2020. The fabricated immigration crisis was also extremely successful. Democrats keep trying to meet halfway on whole lies and it never worked.

          Dems did nothing to break up the media/tech oligarchs during that time and now we’re paying for it. Dems have to be willing to play hard ball democracy. And most likely ICE and the FBI will make a bunch of crazy arrests during election season to try and hamper elections and smear candidates.

        • hark@lemmy.world
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          19 hours ago

          You’re so right, support for genocide was just a minor mark against perfection. Keep compromising, soon you’ll be agreeing that democrats shouldn’t fight for marriage equality because some other issue is on the table and we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of slightly better than rabid nazis.

      • 🦄🦄🦄@feddit.org
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        2 days ago

        Cool story, would still have been nice to avoid the transgender genocide or killing health insurance.

        • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          I’m sure all the finger pointing at neighbors will help, instead of, you know, taking 5 minutes to understand how we got here and why its going to continue.

          • return2ozma@lemmy.worldOP
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            2 days ago

            65 million don’t vote. “But Trump” is not a legit platform to run on. You have to give voters something to vote for. Dems fucked up

            • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              That’s exactly it. Dems keep throwing winnable elections and when they do get power they don’t attempt to implement any reforms to make it harder for republicans to hold power both electorally and monetarily so their voters get poorer and disenfranchised and leave.

            • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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              21 hours ago

              Democratic VOTERS fucked up, the party did not. So many pathetic excuses for such a stupid decision in November.

              • return2ozma@lemmy.worldOP
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                19 hours ago

                The party didn’t even hold a primary and said you have to vote for who we tell you to vote for. “Ugh fine, what is she running on?” … “Nothing! Do you want Trump to win?”

                • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  15 hours ago

                  Amazing how they refuse to blame the people with more data, money, and people instead of the people who are in states that didn’t matter (solid blue or solid red).

              • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
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                21 hours ago

                Donald Trump is the president you fucking moron. Happy to vote for Biden in 2020 but not Harris, essentially just a younger Biden.

                Two options. You’re phony or you’re stupid.

                • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  15 hours ago

                  I voted for Harris in California. I didn’t like it and it didn’t impact much, but I did. She still lost because she didn’t make herself different enough from Biden, who had low polling rates, plus courted Republicans who got us into this mess.

            • Soulg@ani.social
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              1 day ago

              The problem is that should have been the only platform needed, but still wasn’t enough

    • ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
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      2 days ago

      “The overall turnout of eligible voters in the 2024 general election was 63.7%. This was lower than the 2020 record of 66.6% but higher than every other election year since at least 2004.”

      People did vote. Constantly blaming the small group of disillusioned voters is just weird.

          • MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip
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            2 days ago

            90%, 80%, hell, even 70%. The general wisdom (not necessarily as true today) is that the higher the turnout in U.S. elections, the more likely the democrat is to win. That was the driver of the attached:

          • IronBird@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            mandatory voting looks like a small price to pay for a (more) healthy democracy, Australia seems to be doing a lot better than the other British colonies right now

            of course with the US, something like that would have to be combined with an extensive overhaul of public education (moving away from the “breed compliant factory workers”-goal), because healthy democracy also requires an educated population capable of knowing when they’re being lied too

            • ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
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              2 days ago

              Argentina has mandatory voting and they have Milei. How healthy is that?

              Argentina also votes on Sunday (a change way simpler than reforming education) and last elections they had 77% turnout. A lot of people simply don’t participate in the democracy and there’s no way around it. No one serious expect 100% people to vote and blames the 30% that doesn’t for the outcomes.

              • MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip
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                2 days ago

                No one expects 100%. Australia hovers around 90% turnout.

                The rest below is me just working out some numbers, and isn’t meant to convince anyone of anything.


                There are ~236 million Americans citizens of voting age, of whom 73.6% (174 million) are registered to vote.

                Of the 174 million registered voters, 155.2 million voted.

                Of the 155.2m, 77.3m voted for Trump, 75.0m voted for Harris, and 2.9m voted for someone else. Not that this is how the system works, but more people voted for “someone other than Trump” than voted for him.

                If 90% of the 174m voters had voted, that would have increased turnout by 1.4m voters. Not enough to change the popular vote, even if they were all for Harris (though depending on distribution there is at least some small chance the Electoral College votes would have changed enough).

                If 90% (212.4m) of the 236m eligible voters had voted, that’s 57.2m more votes to cast.

                Pew Research says that polled non-voters went 44% for Trump, 40% for Harris. Applying that to our hypothetical 57.2m voters, it’s 22.9m more for Harris and 25.2m more for Trump, bringing our totals to 102.5m Trump, 97.9m Harris, and a new block of 9.2m undecided. Note that two of those figures rounded up, so the apparent total is 212.6m rather than 212.4m.

                The difference between Trump-Harris at this point is 4.6m votes. For Harris to tie/win the popular vote on the new undecided block, she would have needed 75% of them (Harris 6.9% vs. Trump 2.3m).

                All of that hinges on polls reflecting reality, which lately is much easier to question (not based on misinformation, just with polling managing so often not matching the real vote results).

                Thank you for going on this numbers journey with me.

    • theparadox@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Hey, guys, I found that comment! You know, the one where some smug prick tries to remind everyone how correct they were… ::checks watch:: 11 months ago.

      Thank goodness they showed up. I was afraid there was going to be a political post that didn’t devolve into liberals and leftists screaming at each other about lesser evils and supporting genocide.

      I guess someone needs to do the important work of making sure those who oppose christo-fucking-fascists never find common ground.

        • theparadox@lemmy.world
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          15 hours ago

          Lol. Imagine thinking you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about. It really shouldn’t matter so god damn much but I voted, for Harris. I’m just not an immature shitbird that can’t empathize and can’t move on.

          They messed up, sure. Get over it and solve today’s problems instead of constantly, repeatedly, over and over again, bring it up and lording it over them. Infighting keeps Trump in power. You have no moral high ground.

    • fodor@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      That’s all nice and good but you’re just wrong because of the electoral college. I voted, but I also knew that in my state, my vote would not change the result and it has never changed the result in my lifetime. So if one of my friends decided to stay home, I wouldn’t judge them for that. There aren’t enough of us in our state to change the results. That’s the sad reality, and you need to understand that so that you stop blaming innocent well-intentioned people who actually understand their own reality better than you do.