Dax is literally a worm living inside Jadzia’s body. Basically an alien parasite that evolved into a mutualism relationship instead.
That was the intention of the writers…Trills are forced to live multiple lives and we’re not forced into a gender normative.
Jadzia is more than a sex appeal of course. I’m talking about one scene, not her whole character.
So with Uhura we’re evaluating her whole character, but with Jadzia we’re not?
If you look at her entire character it’s pretty clear that at no point is she living as a lesbian, closeted or otherwise. All of her interactions with male characters have romantic or at least flirtatious overtones (some unrequited), except with Sisko who she treats as an old friend (and he refers to her as old man). Her only major romantic relationship that takes place during the running of the show is her romance and marriage to Worf.
Seems like you’ve never heard of a bi or pansexual? That or you’re just obsessed with some kind of lesbian purity test?
Imo any representation that put lgbtq people in a positive light or made the average American even slightly empathetical to their character was both positive and rare.
Furthermore, I take exception to quotes from the show’s writing staff. The writers’ goals and intentions literally do not matter. Only what appears in the show as it aired (“the text”).
I don’t think you get to decide that? Intention and context matters to most people.
Just as we shouldn’t pay any attention to what JK Rowling says now (about Dumbledore’s sexuality or other issues), so too should we ignore what the DS9 writers have said since.
Lol, I think there’s a bit of a difference between a writer retconning their work for publicity and writer explaining their process and intent. Trying to conflate the two is just a dishonest argument.
Oh and by the way, I’ve known about RuPaul since the 90s and I am not in the community. He reached #2 on the billboard hot dance music chart with Supermodel, recorded in 1992.
Number #2 on the billboard hot dance, aka #45 on the billboard top 100. Meaning still not very popular to the average household.
We’re not talking about your experiences… We’re talking about America as a whole in the 90s, which was still very anti-gay in most every way imaginable.
Idk, I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree at this point. I don’t really feel like continuing talking to someone who is obviously not very inclusive on the subject.
I don’t think we actually disagree all that much. Our main point of disagreement is on the degrees of stuff. It seems I think the 90s was way less extreme (on the bad side) than you do, and that Star Trek was also way less extreme than you do (on the progressive side).
To be honest, you’ve made it sound like the 90s America was pretty much like Saudi Arabia and that Star Trek as depicted was the full realization of Gene Roddenberry’s post-race free love communist utopia. The reality of both was far more moderate. I’d even argue that there’s a lot more anti-gay sentiment and hostility around now than there was in the 90s.
It seems I think the 90s was way less extreme (on the bad side) than you do
You mean the decade don’t ask don’t tell was put into place because a gay sailor was stomped to death by his co-worker? Or the decade that consistently allowed men to get away with torture and murder because the victim was gay?
Star Trek was also way less extreme than you do (on the progressive side).
I never claimed it was extremely progressive, I just said that any form of representation is important when there hasn’t ever been any.
To be honest, you’ve made it sound like the 90s America was pretty much like Saudi Arabia
I’m guessing you never lived in the American south? It’s nice that you grew up in a liberal oasis, but Ive seen friends completely disowned by their families for their sexuality. I’ve had friends beaten to an inch of their life after being outed, and that happened in the 00s.
Your experience is not universal, or even that common.
Star Trek as depicted was the full realization of Gene Roddenberry’s post-race free love communist utopia
The only thing I’ve done is state that the first non salacity lesbian kiss to be broadcasted on public television was significant.
I’d even argue that there’s a lot more anti-gay sentiment and hostility around now than there was in the 90s.
That may be the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a long time. Gay people literally have the right to get married now. Don’t ask don’t tell is no longer a policy of the US military. The aids crisis isn’t pouring fuel on the fire of bigots.
Do you not remember Queer Nation having to be formed in a response to increase violence against the community? Or the fact that the expansion of sexual orientation to hate crimes was in response to the rise in crimes against the LGBT community in the 90s?
There’s been a rise in antitrans sentiment, but even in conservative spaces there’s more acceptance for traditional gay relationships.
That was the intention of the writers…Trills are forced to live multiple lives and we’re not forced into a gender normative.
So with Uhura we’re evaluating her whole character, but with Jadzia we’re not?
Seems like you’ve never heard of a bi or pansexual? That or you’re just obsessed with some kind of lesbian purity test?
Imo any representation that put lgbtq people in a positive light or made the average American even slightly empathetical to their character was both positive and rare.
I don’t think you get to decide that? Intention and context matters to most people.
Lol, I think there’s a bit of a difference between a writer retconning their work for publicity and writer explaining their process and intent. Trying to conflate the two is just a dishonest argument.
Number #2 on the billboard hot dance, aka #45 on the billboard top 100. Meaning still not very popular to the average household.
We’re not talking about your experiences… We’re talking about America as a whole in the 90s, which was still very anti-gay in most every way imaginable.
Idk, I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree at this point. I don’t really feel like continuing talking to someone who is obviously not very inclusive on the subject.
I don’t think we actually disagree all that much. Our main point of disagreement is on the degrees of stuff. It seems I think the 90s was way less extreme (on the bad side) than you do, and that Star Trek was also way less extreme than you do (on the progressive side).
To be honest, you’ve made it sound like the 90s America was pretty much like Saudi Arabia and that Star Trek as depicted was the full realization of Gene Roddenberry’s post-race free love communist utopia. The reality of both was far more moderate. I’d even argue that there’s a lot more anti-gay sentiment and hostility around now than there was in the 90s.
You mean the decade don’t ask don’t tell was put into place because a gay sailor was stomped to death by his co-worker? Or the decade that consistently allowed men to get away with torture and murder because the victim was gay?
I never claimed it was extremely progressive, I just said that any form of representation is important when there hasn’t ever been any.
I’m guessing you never lived in the American south? It’s nice that you grew up in a liberal oasis, but Ive seen friends completely disowned by their families for their sexuality. I’ve had friends beaten to an inch of their life after being outed, and that happened in the 00s.
Your experience is not universal, or even that common.
The only thing I’ve done is state that the first non salacity lesbian kiss to be broadcasted on public television was significant.
That may be the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a long time. Gay people literally have the right to get married now. Don’t ask don’t tell is no longer a policy of the US military. The aids crisis isn’t pouring fuel on the fire of bigots.
Do you not remember Queer Nation having to be formed in a response to increase violence against the community? Or the fact that the expansion of sexual orientation to hate crimes was in response to the rise in crimes against the LGBT community in the 90s?
There’s been a rise in antitrans sentiment, but even in conservative spaces there’s more acceptance for traditional gay relationships.