Even the first one is highly debatable.
Took on the Nazis after accrueing 75% of the world’s gold reserves selling weapons to allies and watching from afar. The advantage of not facing direct infrastructure loss and having scientists flocking to the US for safety also allowed for the development of the nuclear bomb.
Took on the Nazis
Didn’t more Americans fight in the Pacific Theater? Weird how all these hagiographies don’t start with “Killed 3M Japanese, mostly civilians”.
killed 3m Japanese
The Japanese regime was up to worse shit than the German one, rhey just weren’t doing it to white people.
mostly to civilians
So there was this city called Dresden…
I’m not necessarily defending anyone here; all three suck, but it feels like weird revisionism.
The Japanese regime was up to worse shit than the German one
The firebombing of Tokyo was as nightmarish a war crime as the London Blitz.
I’m not necessarily defending anyone here; all three suck, but it feels like weird revisionism
History is written by the victors. So there’s always a justification for atrocity in the bylines when it comes time to explain your own campaigns of horror.
In another fifty years, I suspect the subject of the Gaza Genocide will be treated with the same backhanded accounting as the genocides in Kenya and Armenia, the Red Scares in America, and the White Terror in Taiwan.
Remember that Japanese PM who got got wiyh a diy shotgun? Lookup his grandpa.
Or “unit 731” and the guy who ran it.
The modern relationship between Korea and Japan is deeply fucked, especially given the historical context.
But during the US Occupation of Japan I’m 1946 and 1947, U.S. authorities offered Unit 731’s leader, Shirō Ishii, and other perpetrators immunity from prosecution for war crimes in exchange for the biological weapons data collected from their experiments.
The people we slaughtered were civilians and the ones we spared were the worst war criminals.
Well yes. The wrong thing got done. Kind if reliably.
Sucks to suck.
Who was worse Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan?
But killing civilians wasn’t taboo at the time and we can whataboutism Japan’s treatment of civilians.
As for your question, yes the US was inconsequential in the allies beating Germany (though it can argued they allowed the western Allies to meet the USSR in Germany) and was mostly in the Pacific theatre.
This is absolutely wrong, but the fascists violated the rules deliberately and repeatedly and created the modern concept of total war as an ideological demand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
The Geneva Conventions were established prior to the war. The versions we have now were updated post-war to reflect the changing demands but deliberate attacks on civilians were never allowable under them. As it happens the reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen is that they were military ports and so Americans claimed the whole cities were viable “military targets” though that’s… Debated. It is an inevitable consequence of the concept of total war however.
Japan was invited to join them, agreed, and then broke them with glee. It sucks to suck but that’s the kind of the war the fascists wanted.
But killing civilians wasn’t taboo at the time
At the time?
An estimated over 940,000 people were killed by direct post-9/11 war violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and Pakistan between 2001-2023. Of these, more than 432,000 were civilians. The number of people wounded or ill as a result of the conflicts is far higher, as is the number of civilians who died “indirectly,” as a result of wars’ destruction of economies, healthcare systems, infrastructure and the environment.
Thanks to the internet and spread of information you have to pretend it’s not happening.
Who was worse Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan?
I mean, if we’re talking genocidal regimes of the 20th century? Germany and Japan had a really late start compared to the Americans, the British, and the Dutch.
The Germans are primarily vilified for killing other Europeans. But King Leopold’s Holocaust in the Congo Free States was nightmarish, killing as many as 13M local residents in pursuit of cheap rubber and lumber. Nevermind British massacres in India, Ireland, and Kenya.
However you slice it, the targets of these war machines are inevitably civilian. Either direct war on industrial centers to limit war time production or indirect siege of a city through embargo or attacks on transports and commercial shipping inevitably and intentionally murders the most vulnerable first and foremost.
But killing civilians wasn’t taboo at the time
Still isn’t. All war is, at its heart, a civilian slaughter. The only real way to bring a population to heel is to terrorize them past the point of resistance. From the German conquest of Poland to the American firebombing of Tokyo, mass murder of civilians plays a central role in extorting surrender.
They forgot the first 400 years of nonstop racist and genocidal “heroes”. Literally inspired the nazis.
You know the US isn’t that old… Right?
The first US colony in America was established in 1607. Honestly, your comment is pedantry so I’m not exactly sure why I’m responding to such a valueless comment, but something rubs me the wrong way about casually pretending the “American” tag starts at 1776 or whatever and therefore minimizing the horrible actions of both our founders and the people who came before them.
The first settlers may not have been citizens of the USA but they were the first Americans to commit despicable acts against the natives, their eventual slaves, the women of their communities, and no doubt the LGBTQAI community. Just feels wrong to pedantically correct someone calling out the horrible shit we did prior to (and during) WW2.
You want to blame the US for anything that happened before the country was established? How childish.
You’re being purposefully obtuse and dim, but I’ll respond once more incase you are actually trying to understand the world around you instead of ragebait.
We have “heroes” we celebrate, mythicize, and owe the US’s history to which I would qualify as American. We’re not talking about “blaming the US for government sanctioned activities”, we’re talking about what the fuckin comic is talking about which is the history of American heroes. So no, youre not even commenting on the correct concept.
This is completely ignoring the fact that “American” is a bit of a erasure of the reality that Native Americans were American, Canadians and Mexicans live on North America. There’s a whole other fuckin continent called America whose residents should be considered American… But that’s a bit pedantic even if there’s some meaningful lessons there I’ll drop that topic to focus on what’s actually more telling.
We have a holiday for Christopher Columbus. I grew up learning about him for multiple years of my history education as the person who discovered America, viewed in a positive light despite what he did. Benjamin Franklin, one of the beloved heroic founders, was born in like 1706 putting a ton of his actions and horrific behaviors prior to the founding the USA. There are several characters like Pocahontas and Captain John Smith that we again point to and learn about as heroes in the American Mythos. Idk if I’d consider them citizens of the USA but I would definitely consider them Americans. Like first of all is 320 years (BF’s birthday to today) so off from 400 that you’d make a comment? Is drawing a line at what Christopher Columbus did as not American really so important to you, given we have events like the Trail of Tears taught in every classroom in the US. It’s all an extension of the same evils you’re erasing accountability for over less than 100 years? Like it’s just weird man. Big touch grass energy. Is it cause your identity is tied to Americans doing no wrong? Or are you just bored today? Like I’m genuinely curious, I’m not exactly interested in being your therapist, but like wtf is this worth to you?
You are being overly verbose and artless. I get it you think all of history was evil and should be judged through the lenses of the present. Its easy to call people who were very progressive for their time evil and barbaric today but you fail to see its how you will be viewed in a more progressive future.
Its funny how everyone who knows me personally tells me I am one of the most intelligent people they know but some angry child online thinks I’m dim because I don’t agree with their black and white take on history. The idea that every wrong committed wasn’t balanced out by something positive and progressive is childish in the extreme.
Keep on moving the goalposts. You think you are the only one who can see things and since that is the case there is no hope for you to see yourself. I’m gonna do my favorite thing on lemmy. I’m gonna block you because there is currently no hope for you. Keep on blaming the past for the present. That way nothing will ever change.
Even in Columbus’s time he was known as a piece of shit who went too far, yet Americans worship the fucker as one of their own and he was born 600 years ago.
Keep defending the past, and the present will never have a reason to change.
I never brought up columbus day that that was the other narrow minded person. What is about you narrow minded types that when someone points out a glaring blind spot in your statements that you dig down with some specific detail and make your whole tired arguments about that.
So instead of talking about your blindspot we end of up talking about something that has nothing at all to do with my statement.
Goodbye what ever that shit in your name means.
Its funny how everyone who knows me personally tells me I am one of the most intelligent people they know
Aw my sweet summer child.
Its easy to call people who were very progressive for their time evil and barbaric today but you fail to see its how you will be viewed in a more progressive future.
This mf would defend Hitler if he was from the US.
Go back to reddit where neckbeards guzzle up US propaganda, puke it back up and pass it around. You aren’t fooling anyone with self-aggrandizing bs.
Regional heroes often precede the countries they are celebrated in. Like, for example Stauffenberg precedes the current Germany.
What you inherit becomes your history. Even if you steal it.
Are viking invasion not part of British history because it wasn’t called Britain yet?
Are you like 12?
Don’t go way mad just go away.
And in the first panel only white people were “heroes” jsyk, the military was segregated. How many black men were awarded the medal of honor for wwii? Literally zero until 1997.
Ethnic minorities in the U.S. Armed Forces during World War II comprised about 13% of all military service members.
Since it is a single dude I think depicting them as a white dude is alright
I just cant think of the ‘greatest’ generation as anything other than white racists who weren’t as evil as the guy in germany. Never think of any of them as heroes but just pieces of shit in America at the right time to stop hating black people long enough to maybe reduce their sentence in hell because they blew the brains out of some nazis.
I wouldn’t say they were as bad as Nazis… They were a product of their time. We’ve come a long day since then, but that doesn’t discredit the good things they did.
By that argument Nazism was a product of its time too. A lot of Western Europeans did not see nonwhite people as fully human then. Some went as far as seeing them as animals or soulless. Western Europeans were already committing genocide against non whites via the colonial enterprise, man-made famines etc.
Entire fields of science (race science, “phrenology”) were created and religious philosophies were adjusted to accomodate this inhumane worldview.
I wouldn’t see Nazism as the antithesis of Western thought at the time. If anything it was the natural progression of some of the darkest aspects of the Western worldview. Hitler is largely vilified for engaging in imperialism against other Western nations. If he had quietly committed genocide in a colony located in the “global south”… I don’t see how other Western nations take issue with that since that is what they were doing at the time.
National Socialidm very much was a product if it’s time. Imperialism hadn’t yet been globally condemed, racism was rampant globally, and genocides and man made famine were happening all over the world. Germany was going through an economic collapse when along comes Mr. Hitler who was able to convince Germany that they should hate certain people and love others.
They were only able to thrive because of the certain set of circumstances that existed at that time. If someone attacked a NATO country today what do you think would happen?
Imperialism was being condemned. The people condemning it didn’t count as people at the time.
Germany was going through an economic collapse partly due to punishing terms introduced by other Western countries after losing WW1.
“National socialism” was never actually socialist. It masqueraded as socialism to gain support but was always fascist.
I’d argue fascism only concerns itself with hatred, not love. Had Hitler successfullt genocided the initial groups he blamed for everything, he would have found a new outgroup to target. This would have continued until black haired men with toothbrush moustaches were labelled the problem in need of a “final solution”.
Like all the heroes during the end of metoo? The lack of self-awareness on both sides is monumental.
I wish for you the best, and that some day you identify with panel one instead of panel four.
I am identifying with panel 1.
I’m pointing out the insane hypocrisy of thinking one sides version of being a cunt is different from the other one.
I presume you are being downvoted because of the standard right wing and centrist trick of equating both sides, when they are not even the slightest bit close in scale or effect.
Essentially, arguing in bad faith. It’s a toxic viewpoint to think that right wing suppression of broad scale ideological dissent is similar to the fairly edge case set of accusations that were the bounce back from #MeToo.
It’s not a trick if it’s true. What i’m saying is that this meme NEVER in a million years would have surfaced during the later stages of #metoo, where people essentially got their life destroyed for posting on social media or having a bad date. I’m not taking about the Bill Cosby/Weinstein/Spacey-kind of infractions here.
That is hypocrisy. I bet some of the people here sent emails to employers to have them fired during those times.
