All femimist authors attract a following of dudes who, despite not being antifeminist when asked, somehow always manage to find abnormal amounts of energy to repeatedly and loudly criticize them for objective faults.
Energy and time they rarely manage to find for criticizing authors who are not feminist.
Thank God we have Ilovethebomb to give us the braindead anti-feminist take–it complements the comic quite well, really. Racism and extremism were in ample supply thanks to the young Republicans she quoted, but it was the lack of sexism that made the picture feel incomplete. Chef’s kiss, sir/madame
I’m sorry, did these men not already demonize themselves enough to make it clear who they are? I saw this comic as more as an observation than an attempt to insult. She didn’t demonize them, their actions did
It’s a fucking bummer that the people here don’t know how much of a Karen pizzacake is. I literally just wrote a long ass comment yesterday about why she in particular is a piece of shit. I know for some it really is the OF/blatant misogyny, but I really think people underestimate how shitty her takes are and the lengths she’ll go to silence her critics through legal action or bans. People like her are part of the reason why Reddit is so god awful.
I’ve read the exchange and she comes off mostly reasonable, and clearly fatigued. Summary follows.
This is the kind of content (sorry, spoilers don't work on mobile).
She got sick of having to personally chase down and ask for removal of each offensive (to her) posts from BoneHurtingJuice after asking mods to handle it (with guidlines) for many months. They didn’t, instead they posted her request publicly after she explicitly asked them not to “lest it draw additional ire from BHG users”. It drew considerable attacks and she even had her patreon taken down by mass false reports for a while. She finally gave up on individual post modding and requested posts of her art to be banned entirely on the subreddit rules. The lone moderator said no, we will only remove individual posts, and “I’ll only remove your content if there is a significant majority in favour [on the subreddit]”, and if that’s not good enough then “if you want to file DMCAs or whatever then be my guest”. That is 1) empty promise as the mod knew her edited content was very popular, 2) a shit response for a mod to make to that request from the artist. So she filed DCMAs and lo and behold the mod made a blanket ban on her art for the sub - I guess it was possible.
Sounds exhausting on her behalf and just looking at the comments on the BHJ threads and applying just a sprinkle of empathy I believe she’s not wrong - they’re toxic and many of them come across as fairly entitled edgelord kids.
It’s a fucking bummer that the people here don’t know how much of a Karen pizzacake is. I literally just wrote a long ass comment yesterday about why she in particular is a piece of shit.
People here might not think that because uhhh… this community is less toxic.
Top comment was a male SA survivor, pizzacake argued her misandry in a really sarcastic and insincere way (“men are even worse to men”), and then the mods banned the user and nuked the comment section.
If you go there, it’s been entirely scrubbed of criticism.
This is what triggered her low faith response. I think going back and reading her tone worth context actually matters. The DMCA is absolutely bullshit. Even if you don’t like what someome says, fair use is fair use. She took advantage of her status and weilded to her full extent because of course she did–she’s an asshole.
A while has passed and she finally rescinded her threats, but her comics remain banned due to the lingering resent of the community.
I don’t condone mysogony or misandry, speaking as a male victim myself. I’ve noticed she’s removed some of her god awful takes, but man she really pisses me off. I mostly agree with her poltically and don’t give a damn about her OF. I just don’t want to be lumped with the incels, which she has effectively done for her critics.
I mean I read through the link your provided in your initial comment to explain your anger. If I missed context it’s because there was no further additional context provided at the time - onus is on you making the claim, not me. But ok you’ve got more…
So I’m looking through the first comments section link and images for the misandry. Yeah, those jokes could be taken as borderline misandrist - I can see how some would interpret it that way. I can see how many would not - as ive heard many guys speak that way about women over my life. I can also see how they are possibly being misinterpreted - most of the comments are saying “men actually do get told these comments all the time”… And well I have spend a lot of time with a lot of women, and currently live with three… And this just isn’t my experience at all. As an example I have heard a lot of sympathy and empathy for bald men and guys that wear toupees. It’s not that women do not ever make these statements, but to pass them off as ‘common’ and ‘the norm’ like these commenters are is very weird to me as misandry has been a rarity in my life - and yes, I went to college, and spend a lot of time around self-professed feminists. I didn’t always agree with their opinions but we had good discussions that were not attacks or the vilification of all men, just around understanding one another’s issues.
Looking through the thread comments there is actually a real “mens rights” undercurrent, anti-feminism and misogyny in the comments. I don’t have to dig deep in the thread either: top comment “As for the appearances, we are mocked relentlessly for trying too hard to modify our appearances.” Really? Not in my experience. That’d be unusual and rude.
Third from top comment: “It’s supposed to be an example of how women don’t act, right? But they do all of that more than men do, it seems.” Riiiight. I’m getting a vibe here.
I’m not familiar with the “LeftWingMaleAdvocates” sub reddit, mostly because Reddit is a cesspool I have avoided for years now, but these are not sounding like left-wing opinions at all. so what’s the vibe of their userbase… Let’s check overlap of users on LWMA with other subreddit to see what else they post on…
Ah yes, MGTOW, mensrights, menslib, ‘kotaku/tumblr/socialjusticeinaction’, ‘pussypassdenied’, ‘stupidpol’, ‘shitpoliticssays’ and a bunch of other right wing and incel subs that spend most of their time attempting to dump on feminists, social justice advocates, and anyone left-wing. Totally subs that ‘left-wing male advocates’ would be involved with.
Bro this ‘evidence’ is hot trash, and you say this is it after “it’s been scrubbed of criticism” by the mods? I can only imagine how bad it was before. I’m not bothering to look further into your supplied links, don’t have all day to read mens rights activists talking crap about some webcomic lady.
I mean, I didn’t provide a lot initially and that’s on me, and I think you’re being sincere and I appreciate you’re perspective. I didn’t look onto leftwing male sub at all, I trusted without further research, my bad. I agree that it’s disappointing to see so much incels in the comments, they completely validate her deflections. Even so, I can pretty clearly give the rundown of why I see her this way.
She abused DMCA. This is bad for fair use. Fair use protects artists ability to speak freely. I’m also an artist so this hits close to home. You can’t attack people for disagreeing with you (it’s illegal).
Regardless, she targeted the mods. The benefit to this is by eliminating all her content, she made all criticism disappear. Her choice in target was also an issue. Why go after BHJ and not other discriminatory hangouts on reddit? Is it because what they post is perceived as credible? Personally, I believe the mods were diligent, and I think so did she, which resulted in more valid criticism to rise to the top, and motivated her to go after this sub in particular.
She also deflected blame to incels through posting. Hater comics, responses in comments, and the implicit brigading. The comics mods are a bunch of simps. She used them to blanket ban tons of people who clearly didn’t deserve it. I think this is easy to miss, but she really doubles down on some shitty takes and dissenters get nuked by downvotes. Hivemind also happens here, but not nearly to the same degree.
You can try to percieve all these actions in good faith. I don’t. Her overreactions are in line with someone who is desparately insecure and controlling. I think the only reason we give a damn about this conversation is the same reason we ended up on lemmy—putting your eggs all in one basket. Comics has a lot of great work which is not so great if a mod bans you for not liking pizzacake.
I think you probably understand where I’m coming from if you got this far, and I truly appreciate your time to read this because I spent an embarrassing amount of time writing this. If you still disagree, I can’t say I blame you. This really is a rabbit hole for me to hyperfixate on. Either way, I think I got what I needed off my chest.
Thanks for your response, I honestly enjoy trying to understand other people’s opinions and you are clearly coming at this from a different experience to me. I dont draw comics or frequent their subreddits. I agree on her DCMA action being abusive of that system, and I don’t like it either - for me her behaviour is however softened somewhat by the fact a mod rejecting her proposal to remove her work suggested DCMA requests as her next step if she was unhappy with their response though.
If she was intending to maliciously use DMCAs as a tactic though, it’s weird that she hasn’t gone after other subreddits after that win in the following year - if she was successful with DCMA takedowns on BHJ, why not go after r/comedynecrophilia next for instance? I don’t know what she decided, but it does seem like even prior to this affair she got a special kind of vitriol directed to her work that I just never understood (last time I was on Reddit regularly was late 2022 which was prior to any of this). Quickly looking on comedynecro they seem to constantly use her work and most of its pretty negative, so perhaps she is afraid of encouraging more blowback… Either way it must be pretty exhausting for (iirc?) some 1-person webcomic who has to engage with the community.
I personally find her work pretty average (some is good but mostly just ok or meh), so I think I’m at my limit for going into the weeds on her personal reddit dramas. I take your position as sincere and it is a lot more nuanced than I thought at first, appreciate your time explaining it and I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thank god we have Pizzacake around to let us know about this.
Seriously though, she always has the most blindingly obvious takes, when she’s not busy demonising men.
All femimist authors attract a following of dudes who, despite not being antifeminist when asked, somehow always manage to find abnormal amounts of energy to repeatedly and loudly criticize them for objective faults.
Energy and time they rarely manage to find for criticizing authors who are not feminist.
Nah, she’s just toxic. Imagine threatening to sue a subreddit and it’s mods for making fun of your mediocre comics…
attracting a crowd of critics doesn’t make someone a feminist. sometimes it just makes them female or a tall poppy.
Thank God we have Ilovethebomb to give us the braindead anti-feminist take–it complements the comic quite well, really. Racism and extremism were in ample supply thanks to the young Republicans she quoted, but it was the lack of sexism that made the picture feel incomplete. Chef’s kiss, sir/madame
Removed by mod
I’m sorry, did these men not already demonize themselves enough to make it clear who they are? I saw this comic as more as an observation than an attempt to insult. She didn’t demonize them, their actions did
I know, surprised_pikachu.bmp, right?
It’s a fucking bummer that the people here don’t know how much of a Karen pizzacake is. I literally just wrote a long ass comment yesterday about why she in particular is a piece of shit. I know for some it really is the OF/blatant misogyny, but I really think people underestimate how shitty her takes are and the lengths she’ll go to silence her critics through legal action or bans. People like her are part of the reason why Reddit is so god awful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/1ggn4a6/pizzacake_posts_are_now_banned/
I’ve read the exchange and she comes off mostly reasonable, and clearly fatigued. Summary follows.
This is the kind of content (sorry, spoilers don't work on mobile).
She got sick of having to personally chase down and ask for removal of each offensive (to her) posts from BoneHurtingJuice after asking mods to handle it (with guidlines) for many months. They didn’t, instead they posted her request publicly after she explicitly asked them not to “lest it draw additional ire from BHG users”. It drew considerable attacks and she even had her patreon taken down by mass false reports for a while. She finally gave up on individual post modding and requested posts of her art to be banned entirely on the subreddit rules. The lone moderator said no, we will only remove individual posts, and “I’ll only remove your content if there is a significant majority in favour [on the subreddit]”, and if that’s not good enough then “if you want to file DMCAs or whatever then be my guest”. That is 1) empty promise as the mod knew her edited content was very popular, 2) a shit response for a mod to make to that request from the artist. So she filed DCMAs and lo and behold the mod made a blanket ban on her art for the sub - I guess it was possible.
Sounds exhausting on her behalf and just looking at the comments on the BHJ threads and applying just a sprinkle of empathy I believe she’s not wrong - they’re toxic and many of them come across as fairly entitled edgelord kids.
People here might not think that because uhhh… this community is less toxic.
Man, you missed so much context.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1dpyynb/misandry_from_a_popular_webcomics_artist_and_more/
Top comment was a male SA survivor, pizzacake argued her misandry in a really sarcastic and insincere way (“men are even worse to men”), and then the mods banned the user and nuked the comment section.
If you go there, it’s been entirely scrubbed of criticism.
https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1dpptkk/talk/
Obvious BHJ was making fun of this in high volume. Mods were absolutely taking efforts to ban misogonist.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/1dqisfa/i_generally_like_her_comics_but_there_are_some/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/1dqkrqs/double_standards/
This is what triggered her low faith response. I think going back and reading her tone worth context actually matters. The DMCA is absolutely bullshit. Even if you don’t like what someome says, fair use is fair use. She took advantage of her status and weilded to her full extent because of course she did–she’s an asshole.
A while has passed and she finally rescinded her threats, but her comics remain banned due to the lingering resent of the community.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/1kbin75/pizzacakecomics_posts_will_remain_banned_for_the/
I don’t condone mysogony or misandry, speaking as a male victim myself. I’ve noticed she’s removed some of her god awful takes, but man she really pisses me off. I mostly agree with her poltically and don’t give a damn about her OF. I just don’t want to be lumped with the incels, which she has effectively done for her critics.
I mean I read through the link your provided in your initial comment to explain your anger. If I missed context it’s because there was no further additional context provided at the time - onus is on you making the claim, not me. But ok you’ve got more…
So I’m looking through the first comments section link and images for the misandry. Yeah, those jokes could be taken as borderline misandrist - I can see how some would interpret it that way. I can see how many would not - as ive heard many guys speak that way about women over my life. I can also see how they are possibly being misinterpreted - most of the comments are saying “men actually do get told these comments all the time”… And well I have spend a lot of time with a lot of women, and currently live with three… And this just isn’t my experience at all. As an example I have heard a lot of sympathy and empathy for bald men and guys that wear toupees. It’s not that women do not ever make these statements, but to pass them off as ‘common’ and ‘the norm’ like these commenters are is very weird to me as misandry has been a rarity in my life - and yes, I went to college, and spend a lot of time around self-professed feminists. I didn’t always agree with their opinions but we had good discussions that were not attacks or the vilification of all men, just around understanding one another’s issues.
Looking through the thread comments there is actually a real “mens rights” undercurrent, anti-feminism and misogyny in the comments. I don’t have to dig deep in the thread either: top comment “As for the appearances, we are mocked relentlessly for trying too hard to modify our appearances.” Really? Not in my experience. That’d be unusual and rude. Third from top comment: “It’s supposed to be an example of how women don’t act, right? But they do all of that more than men do, it seems.” Riiiight. I’m getting a vibe here.
I’m not familiar with the “LeftWingMaleAdvocates” sub reddit, mostly because Reddit is a cesspool I have avoided for years now, but these are not sounding like left-wing opinions at all. so what’s the vibe of their userbase… Let’s check overlap of users on LWMA with other subreddit to see what else they post on…
https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/leftwingmaleadvocates
Ah yes, MGTOW, mensrights, menslib, ‘kotaku/tumblr/socialjusticeinaction’, ‘pussypassdenied’, ‘stupidpol’, ‘shitpoliticssays’ and a bunch of other right wing and incel subs that spend most of their time attempting to dump on feminists, social justice advocates, and anyone left-wing. Totally subs that ‘left-wing male advocates’ would be involved with.
Bro this ‘evidence’ is hot trash, and you say this is it after “it’s been scrubbed of criticism” by the mods? I can only imagine how bad it was before. I’m not bothering to look further into your supplied links, don’t have all day to read mens rights activists talking crap about some webcomic lady.
I mean, I didn’t provide a lot initially and that’s on me, and I think you’re being sincere and I appreciate you’re perspective. I didn’t look onto leftwing male sub at all, I trusted without further research, my bad. I agree that it’s disappointing to see so much incels in the comments, they completely validate her deflections. Even so, I can pretty clearly give the rundown of why I see her this way.
She abused DMCA. This is bad for fair use. Fair use protects artists ability to speak freely. I’m also an artist so this hits close to home. You can’t attack people for disagreeing with you (it’s illegal).
Regardless, she targeted the mods. The benefit to this is by eliminating all her content, she made all criticism disappear. Her choice in target was also an issue. Why go after BHJ and not other discriminatory hangouts on reddit? Is it because what they post is perceived as credible? Personally, I believe the mods were diligent, and I think so did she, which resulted in more valid criticism to rise to the top, and motivated her to go after this sub in particular.
She also deflected blame to incels through posting. Hater comics, responses in comments, and the implicit brigading. The comics mods are a bunch of simps. She used them to blanket ban tons of people who clearly didn’t deserve it. I think this is easy to miss, but she really doubles down on some shitty takes and dissenters get nuked by downvotes. Hivemind also happens here, but not nearly to the same degree.
You can try to percieve all these actions in good faith. I don’t. Her overreactions are in line with someone who is desparately insecure and controlling. I think the only reason we give a damn about this conversation is the same reason we ended up on lemmy—putting your eggs all in one basket. Comics has a lot of great work which is not so great if a mod bans you for not liking pizzacake.
I think you probably understand where I’m coming from if you got this far, and I truly appreciate your time to read this because I spent an embarrassing amount of time writing this. If you still disagree, I can’t say I blame you. This really is a rabbit hole for me to hyperfixate on. Either way, I think I got what I needed off my chest.
Thanks for your response, I honestly enjoy trying to understand other people’s opinions and you are clearly coming at this from a different experience to me. I dont draw comics or frequent their subreddits. I agree on her DCMA action being abusive of that system, and I don’t like it either - for me her behaviour is however softened somewhat by the fact a mod rejecting her proposal to remove her work suggested DCMA requests as her next step if she was unhappy with their response though.
If she was intending to maliciously use DMCAs as a tactic though, it’s weird that she hasn’t gone after other subreddits after that win in the following year - if she was successful with DCMA takedowns on BHJ, why not go after r/comedynecrophilia next for instance? I don’t know what she decided, but it does seem like even prior to this affair she got a special kind of vitriol directed to her work that I just never understood (last time I was on Reddit regularly was late 2022 which was prior to any of this). Quickly looking on comedynecro they seem to constantly use her work and most of its pretty negative, so perhaps she is afraid of encouraging more blowback… Either way it must be pretty exhausting for (iirc?) some 1-person webcomic who has to engage with the community.
I personally find her work pretty average (some is good but mostly just ok or meh), so I think I’m at my limit for going into the weeds on her personal reddit dramas. I take your position as sincere and it is a lot more nuanced than I thought at first, appreciate your time explaining it and I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.