It’s less disability-friendly than a car, can’t carry cargo, and can’t transport passengers. You try to have a suburban family with just bicycles - especially if one of the kids has balance issues from early childhood onward. It’s not possible. The automobile is viewed as the ultimate symbol of freedom because it can serve multiple roles and has a massive variability in speed.
Nonsense, you can absolutely have standard cargo bikes like this:
Or cargo bikes with gunner seats mounted in them
And there are recumbent and adaptive ebikes and normal bikes too, for people with disabilities or balance issues. Heck, you can even attach trailers to virtually any standard bike, and many different trailer options exist, from pet carriers to cargo, to food service to fully adult men.
Bikes shouldn’t be going above 28mph anyways. We have high speed rail if someone wants to do 150mph through a city.
Cars are definitely the present, but they absolutely don’t need to be the future.
What kind of handicap can allow you to drive but not bike ? Bike are extremely adaptable to any kind of handicap, to the point that they can basically be turned into an electric wheelchair.
can’t carry cargo
I disagree again, it does carry way less cargo but can still carry cargo.
can’t transport passengers
Why do we need to carry passagers ? Because a lot of people (child, elderly people, people without license) cannot drive and because car are expensive. If everyone can use a bike and the bike are so cheap that you can have a few aroumd for guests it greatly reduces the need for carrying assengers.
And you can still carry passagers on a bike, the best example is longtails bike that can carry an adult or several kids as passagers.
kid with balance issue
Longtail and tricycles.
Cars are amazing pieces of technology, they do have unique capabilities like doing unscheduled, flexible long distance drive, or carry a lot of cargo at once.
But for a lot of the daily living a bike (and proper bike infrastructure) would be way better suited to the situation.
I’m disabled, on a good day I just get tired pretty fast.
On a bad day even walking hurt and I need to rest every 15 min or so.
I can’t drive because I have narcolepsia.
You would think that I would love getting around car but I don’t.
When everything is made for car I need to walk a lot more even if someone drives me because parkings tend to not have a lot of benches and everything is farther because parking take space.
It also makes crossing street horrible because I have to wait a long time for cars to stop.
If everything is bike friendly dedicated transport is faster and can afford to stop exactly where I need it and when I need it.
I can take the bus, tram or train if something is too far, and I can stop when I need because bus stop have benches.
On top of that everything is closser together since there little or no parking so a 15 min walk get me to more places.
If i need to take a lot of grocerie I can just take a chariot, the only downside is sometimes there is noisy kids in the bus but this is solved by noise canceling headphones.
I know this is my experience ( which is obviously not universal ) and public transit / bikes are not a silver bullet that fixes everything mobility wise but earing the “bike centric infrastructure is ableist” rant feels downright insulting when it’s the thing that allow me to not depend on friends driving me.
E-bikes are great for people with disabilities who can balance and the elderly. I see old people zipping along on e-bikes a lot here in LA. For everyone else, public transit or para transit is often a better option than a car. A car that can accommodate a wheelchair or disabled driver is usually expensive.
The main reason wheelchair-accessible vehicles (usually a minivan) are so expensive is because no major manufacturers construct them in the factory. So you’re paying for the original vehicle, plus a third party to remove the middle seats (what happens to them, I’d like to know!) cut the sides and lower the floor, adding sections to the doors and rerouting the wiring, install a ramp and “kneeling” capabilities, plus tiedowns and in some cases special controls for driving. Also the driver’s and front passenger seats are set into removable raised platforms. The automatic doors have become standard but used to also be part of the conversion. If the body were constructed with these differences from the start, perhaps in a dedicated factory, the savings would be considerable.
The savings are even greater if you take public transit, which is much roomier than any van and has no associated fuel/repair costs that you’re responsible for. It sucks everywhere doesn’t have such options.
Even places with otherwise-decent public transportation often don’t have adequate disability-accessible public transportation. In fact it’s often the longest-established systems that are the worst for disabilities.
That’s part of why I’m so thrilled with LA transit! I’ve literally never seen anywhere better for people with disabilities on the general public transit (as opposed to paratransit). In other cities I know bus drivers will tend to skip stops with a wheelchair user waiting because it slows them down. Here in LA the driver will get up, make sure they’re secured if they need it, and double check what stop they’re getting off on so they don’t get stranded. And I see a lot more wheelchair users just out going about their day here than I did in other cities, which I don’t think is a coincidence.
It was a huge deal for us the first time we flew back into LAX and there were accessible taxis at the taxi stand. In the old days there were like 2 vans for the whole city and we’d wait hours. Of course LAX is fucked right now but it’s temporary and there’s still lots of the cabs, because they’ve realized they’re also great for hauling luggage. The Metro stations also seem pretty accessible although we haven’t had much occasion to use them. Maybe once they finish the Westwood station.
Not everywhere has public transit. Also, the people with families can’t spend 2 hours each way getting to work. I’m for bikes and public transit, it’s just not the answer to everything. You’re comments are being naive about this.
Thanks for emphasizing the last part of my comment: it sucks everywhere doesn’t have such options. Good public transit isn’t going to take 2 hours each way, and it sucks transit isn’t decent everywhere.
Seattle’s transit is getting better, but it’s still a long haul. If you live in a suburb and your work is in Seattle, but not close to the transit, you’re in for a slog.
There are 3 wheel trikes that help with some disabilities and balance issues, you absolutely can carry cargo with a bike and while you can’t carry a family of 4 on a single bike you can on 2 bikes. I literally can’t imagine being a contrarian about freaking bicycles.
Trikes exist, and some even have a bench seat and storage behind the driver
can’t carry cargo
The humble milk crate begs to differ. Also you can buy a cargo trailer if you need to haul more than a panier’s or a milk crate’s worth of stuff
can’t transport passengers
Hook up a trailer. They start at just $100 on Amazon or get one from a garage sale or local buy/sell listings or even the local bike shop might have used ones. The one I use for all of the kids school pickups and dropoffs I got at a garage sale for $20 and it’s also got space for cargo as well as children
You try to have a suburban family with just bicycles - especially if one of the kids has balance issues from early childhood onward
Mom and dad each ride a normal grownup bike, then each kid rides what’s appropriate for their age, needs and abilities, whether that’s a trailercycle, riding in a trailer, their own bike or even a trike
The automobile is viewed as the ultimate symbol of freedom because it can serve multiple roles and has a massive variability in speed.
Ehhh. Cars are great at what they do, but they’re expensive as fuck to own and completely suck when too many people want to drive to/from/through the same place.
Honestly in the car dependant hellscape that is America I think the best possible balance is one car and a family of bikes for every family. You can usually take bikes on the bus, bikes don’t require any meaningful amount of fuel (ebikes take like one laptop’s worth of energy to charge) and they’re freaking fun to ride as well as being good for fitness and mental health. But you also have the car for longer trips or trips on roads that you can’t safely/legally bike on. Bikes are freaking awesome, and you can throw so many attachments onto them to make them carry just about anything
The barriers to mobility are the giant, dangerous roads and parking lots between everything that car dependency requires. Cycleable/walkable places with good public transit are easier to get around for everyone with or without a car, regardless of disabilities.
Also, disabilities exclude more people from being able to drive than from walking/cycleing/using public transit. Not to mention people excluded from driving due to age. Or finances. Or not being able to get a license due to lack of English literacy. Or not having a permanent address. Or people that just would prefer to not drive. All these people deserve the right to be able to get around, and car dependency denies them that right.
My parents have mobility issues so we modified some Schwinn tricycles with 1200W motors and they can zip around our city on those all day long with no issues.
As far as kids go, I have 4 and we cycle everywhere we need within our city. I manage this by using bicycle trailers and having my kids ride their own bikes when they wish to. A cargo bike and trailer combination would allow me to tow 4 kids without issue though that gets limited as the kids get bigger.
On the topic of bike trailers, my cargo trailer has always ensured I can carry plenty of cargo with my bike when needed. It was actually instrumental when we moved earlier this year as the move was around 2-3 miles and even towing crates to the new house I could beat our vans while giving whichever van I would’ve ridden in the ability to carry two more crates itself.
The biggest limitation with bike trailers (at least the type I use) is how the weight affects the bicycle. Too much weight over the hitch and the front wheel of the bicycle becomes unweighted. I think a seat post mounted hitch would be able to handle more weight without this issue.
Everything is ableist if you think about it enough. “Just get a car rhetoric” is ableist against blind people. Even “just take public transit” is ableist against immunocompromised people.
A society should make accommodations for those with special needs, but we don’t have to give those accommodations to everyone who asks. Some people will need a car, that doesn’t mean your average able bodied person should be driving one, and most of the “just take a bike” rehtoric is directed towards those people.
It’s less disability-friendly than a car, can’t carry cargo, and can’t transport passengers. You try to have a suburban family with just bicycles - especially if one of the kids has balance issues from early childhood onward. It’s not possible. The automobile is viewed as the ultimate symbol of freedom because it can serve multiple roles and has a massive variability in speed.
Nonsense, you can absolutely have standard cargo bikes like this:
Or cargo bikes with gunner seats mounted in them
And there are recumbent and adaptive ebikes and normal bikes too, for people with disabilities or balance issues. Heck, you can even attach trailers to virtually any standard bike, and many different trailer options exist, from pet carriers to cargo, to food service to fully adult men.
Bikes shouldn’t be going above 28mph anyways. We have high speed rail if someone wants to do 150mph through a city.
Cars are definitely the present, but they absolutely don’t need to be the future.
Almost like those suburbs were designed around cars at the exclusion of all other transport
Absolutely true, but it’s still where we are.
With this mentality that’s also where you’ll be in 20 years.
Change starts small.
“Less disability friendly than a car”
I completely disagree but it’s debatable.
What kind of handicap can allow you to drive but not bike ? Bike are extremely adaptable to any kind of handicap, to the point that they can basically be turned into an electric wheelchair.
can’t carry cargo
I disagree again, it does carry way less cargo but can still carry cargo.
can’t transport passengers
Why do we need to carry passagers ? Because a lot of people (child, elderly people, people without license) cannot drive and because car are expensive. If everyone can use a bike and the bike are so cheap that you can have a few aroumd for guests it greatly reduces the need for carrying assengers.
And you can still carry passagers on a bike, the best example is longtails bike that can carry an adult or several kids as passagers.
kid with balance issue
Longtail and tricycles.
Cars are amazing pieces of technology, they do have unique capabilities like doing unscheduled, flexible long distance drive, or carry a lot of cargo at once.
But for a lot of the daily living a bike (and proper bike infrastructure) would be way better suited to the situation.
I want to add my experience to this :
I’m disabled, on a good day I just get tired pretty fast. On a bad day even walking hurt and I need to rest every 15 min or so. I can’t drive because I have narcolepsia.
You would think that I would love getting around car but I don’t. When everything is made for car I need to walk a lot more even if someone drives me because parkings tend to not have a lot of benches and everything is farther because parking take space. It also makes crossing street horrible because I have to wait a long time for cars to stop.
If everything is bike friendly dedicated transport is faster and can afford to stop exactly where I need it and when I need it. I can take the bus, tram or train if something is too far, and I can stop when I need because bus stop have benches. On top of that everything is closser together since there little or no parking so a 15 min walk get me to more places. If i need to take a lot of grocerie I can just take a chariot, the only downside is sometimes there is noisy kids in the bus but this is solved by noise canceling headphones.
I know this is my experience ( which is obviously not universal ) and public transit / bikes are not a silver bullet that fixes everything mobility wise but earing the “bike centric infrastructure is ableist” rant feels downright insulting when it’s the thing that allow me to not depend on friends driving me.
E-bikes are great for people with disabilities who can balance and the elderly. I see old people zipping along on e-bikes a lot here in LA. For everyone else, public transit or para transit is often a better option than a car. A car that can accommodate a wheelchair or disabled driver is usually expensive.
Adult tricycles are great for people with balance issues.
Ebike trikes are a thing too.
The main reason wheelchair-accessible vehicles (usually a minivan) are so expensive is because no major manufacturers construct them in the factory. So you’re paying for the original vehicle, plus a third party to remove the middle seats (what happens to them, I’d like to know!) cut the sides and lower the floor, adding sections to the doors and rerouting the wiring, install a ramp and “kneeling” capabilities, plus tiedowns and in some cases special controls for driving. Also the driver’s and front passenger seats are set into removable raised platforms. The automatic doors have become standard but used to also be part of the conversion. If the body were constructed with these differences from the start, perhaps in a dedicated factory, the savings would be considerable.
The savings are even greater if you take public transit, which is much roomier than any van and has no associated fuel/repair costs that you’re responsible for. It sucks everywhere doesn’t have such options.
Even places with otherwise-decent public transportation often don’t have adequate disability-accessible public transportation. In fact it’s often the longest-established systems that are the worst for disabilities.
That’s part of why I’m so thrilled with LA transit! I’ve literally never seen anywhere better for people with disabilities on the general public transit (as opposed to paratransit). In other cities I know bus drivers will tend to skip stops with a wheelchair user waiting because it slows them down. Here in LA the driver will get up, make sure they’re secured if they need it, and double check what stop they’re getting off on so they don’t get stranded. And I see a lot more wheelchair users just out going about their day here than I did in other cities, which I don’t think is a coincidence.
It was a huge deal for us the first time we flew back into LAX and there were accessible taxis at the taxi stand. In the old days there were like 2 vans for the whole city and we’d wait hours. Of course LAX is fucked right now but it’s temporary and there’s still lots of the cabs, because they’ve realized they’re also great for hauling luggage. The Metro stations also seem pretty accessible although we haven’t had much occasion to use them. Maybe once they finish the Westwood station.
Not everywhere has public transit. Also, the people with families can’t spend 2 hours each way getting to work. I’m for bikes and public transit, it’s just not the answer to everything. You’re comments are being naive about this.
Thanks for emphasizing the last part of my comment: it sucks everywhere doesn’t have such options. Good public transit isn’t going to take 2 hours each way, and it sucks transit isn’t decent everywhere.
Seattle’s transit is getting better, but it’s still a long haul. If you live in a suburb and your work is in Seattle, but not close to the transit, you’re in for a slog.
There are 3 wheel trikes that help with some disabilities and balance issues, you absolutely can carry cargo with a bike and while you can’t carry a family of 4 on a single bike you can on 2 bikes. I literally can’t imagine being a contrarian about freaking bicycles.
Trikes exist, and some even have a bench seat and storage behind the driver
The humble milk crate begs to differ. Also you can buy a cargo trailer if you need to haul more than a panier’s or a milk crate’s worth of stuff
Hook up a trailer. They start at just $100 on Amazon or get one from a garage sale or local buy/sell listings or even the local bike shop might have used ones. The one I use for all of the kids school pickups and dropoffs I got at a garage sale for $20 and it’s also got space for cargo as well as children
Mom and dad each ride a normal grownup bike, then each kid rides what’s appropriate for their age, needs and abilities, whether that’s a trailercycle, riding in a trailer, their own bike or even a trike
Ehhh. Cars are great at what they do, but they’re expensive as fuck to own and completely suck when too many people want to drive to/from/through the same place.
Honestly in the car dependant hellscape that is America I think the best possible balance is one car and a family of bikes for every family. You can usually take bikes on the bus, bikes don’t require any meaningful amount of fuel (ebikes take like one laptop’s worth of energy to charge) and they’re freaking fun to ride as well as being good for fitness and mental health. But you also have the car for longer trips or trips on roads that you can’t safely/legally bike on. Bikes are freaking awesome, and you can throw so many attachments onto them to make them carry just about anything
The barriers to mobility are the giant, dangerous roads and parking lots between everything that car dependency requires. Cycleable/walkable places with good public transit are easier to get around for everyone with or without a car, regardless of disabilities.
Also, disabilities exclude more people from being able to drive than from walking/cycleing/using public transit. Not to mention people excluded from driving due to age. Or finances. Or not being able to get a license due to lack of English literacy. Or not having a permanent address. Or people that just would prefer to not drive. All these people deserve the right to be able to get around, and car dependency denies them that right.
This is true but not entirely.
My parents have mobility issues so we modified some Schwinn tricycles with 1200W motors and they can zip around our city on those all day long with no issues.
As far as kids go, I have 4 and we cycle everywhere we need within our city. I manage this by using bicycle trailers and having my kids ride their own bikes when they wish to. A cargo bike and trailer combination would allow me to tow 4 kids without issue though that gets limited as the kids get bigger.
On the topic of bike trailers, my cargo trailer has always ensured I can carry plenty of cargo with my bike when needed. It was actually instrumental when we moved earlier this year as the move was around 2-3 miles and even towing crates to the new house I could beat our vans while giving whichever van I would’ve ridden in the ability to carry two more crates itself.
The biggest limitation with bike trailers (at least the type I use) is how the weight affects the bicycle. Too much weight over the hitch and the front wheel of the bicycle becomes unweighted. I think a seat post mounted hitch would be able to handle more weight without this issue.
Get your lazy ass on a bike, ya bum!
If I even look sideways at it, I end up with at least broken nose, probably broken knees.
Yeah, honestly the “just get a bike” rhetoric is general pretty ablist.
Everything is ableist if you think about it enough. “Just get a car rhetoric” is ableist against blind people. Even “just take public transit” is ableist against immunocompromised people.
A society should make accommodations for those with special needs, but we don’t have to give those accommodations to everyone who asks. Some people will need a car, that doesn’t mean your average able bodied person should be driving one, and most of the “just take a bike” rehtoric is directed towards those people.
If everyone except for those with disabilities switched to public transport, bikes, it’d be a massive improvement.
I don’t think anyone wants to outlaw motor transport, especially for those without other options.