Hey, remember when China was operating their own police force in Canada? Maybe we should be doing less business with them.
There is/should be a lot of room for compromise.
A mix of “reasonable” tariffs and quotas to start, to make Chinese EVs competitive without destroying domestic manufacturing is a good path. Canada needs investment. Whether foreign auto makers do it, following through on previous commitments, shutting out China can be a reward for them.
Without choosing to provide value cars to Canadians, Canada could offer agriculture for Chinese (solar) energy trade. Pemitting them to boost capacity even more.
Instead of begging the US to buy (and own through investment) our resources, Chinese development would help significantly as well.
Corrupt ideology programmed into Canadians is bad for Canada. We need new friends instead of abusers, and the only reform of an abuser possible comes when they beg for forgiveness when you flirt with new friends.
If Chinese manufactures can exceed Canadian standards, provide spare parts for a minimum of 10 years from the date of manufacture, provide a minimum of 10 years of software support/updates, AND allow all software to be audited for both safe function and security. Then sure. Bring on the cheap EVs.
(But not even our current domestically produced vehicles meet those requirements)
It’s a serious security hole cause the software can be updated through network, the version gets audit and all the follow up update can be good, but the moment it needs to go rogue you just need 1 malicious update to have serious and wide spread harm/attack on a button.
IMO for any vehicles to allow over the network update is beyond stupid. (yes, that includes Tesla.)
There are a few good defcon talks where it has been shown that the engine control and body control can be accessed and modified via the “infotainment” system (the one I saw specifically was Jeeps).
The issues is they are artificially cheap, which undercuts Canada’s auto component industry from serving as an EV hub.
The Chinese government paid for production and have lots (as in sites) of cars that are unsold. They offered huge discounts to unload last years production. Since there were laws about discounting new cars, they moved them (paperwork wise) through shell type arrangements to make them appear as used cars (with less than 5km on the odometer etc).That stuff undercuts any means of US and Canada EVs being viable.
Question, would you say that Teslas are artificially cheap?
Tesla has government assistance programs in US and Canada, but $35000 Tesla does not compete with $14000 Chinese car
Is that a yes or no?
Bye troll
Get a grip. So, assuming you realize that you just admitted Canada has a double standard for banning subsidized electric vehicles, why not force the US to offer you a better deal? Tesla has no issue operating in China. Where is your spine?
Ten years ago I’m not sure I’d have said this, but now: fuck it. We should just get into bed with China. They seem totally uninterested in wars at all unless you’re Taiwan, which we’re not. Trade matters. They seem stable. Sure there are some human rights issues but given all the human rights issues fucking everywhere right now, like. I dunno. I’m for it.
Sure there are some human rights issues
They only kill people I don’t care about in mines and factories, so it’s cool!
My point is more that there are few countries I can think of that are viable trading partners that aren’t committing appalling human rights abuses Joe.
I don’t even think China is interested in any wars over Taiwan. I’m fairly certain it will be a peaceful rejoining once the US crumbles, akin to East and West Germany during the fall of the Soviet Union.
This is exactly the mentality that caused WW1 and WW2 AND the upcoming (or ongoing) WW3. You probably did not aware how many IP theft happened to Canadian local firms and institutions.
Not only am I not aware, I also don’t care.
IP theft
lol. lmao.
It’s not like Chinese EV’s are bad, but they have started a war to overtake EV industry.
Their government is founding EV companies, to advance and take the lead, putting at risk companies like Ford, BMW and so on.I sawthis video, and I saw how they have managed to change battery instead of charging the car, and I was impressed of what they can actually do.
I don’t think Ford and BMW will be in that much danger, and given how long they’ve had to address this inevitability isn’t that just them not investing in their future and by capitalist standards their deserved failure if it were to happen?
Hell, large manufacturers often fought EV companies so they wouldn’t have to compete. It was cheaper to hurt the competition than it was to innovate so they did that instead. Maybe if they didn’t spend so much time and money attacking renewable resources they’d have more governments in place who actually supported giving them support for developing this technology.
“Woe is me, I on-purpose created an environment where all my most loyal customers have an irrational and deep-seated hatred for the thing I now want to do!” Like, cry me a river.
Besides, we don’t need more cars. We need more infrastructure that makes them unnecessary and we need to bring back the mid-density, walkable small town. We need to bring back the rail and bus systems we already had but tore up and/or knee-capped.
Seems to me that the happy medium here might be a lower tariff. 100% was never justified, but 10% or 25% might be. Just enough to allow European and Japanese manufacturers (I don’t give a damn about the US at this point) to price their vehicles somewhat competitively even though they don’t have the advantage of ignoring labour rights.
Canada needs to diversify the trade to rely less on the USA. The current gov has a huge problem on their hands but also opportunities to do something new!
When it comes to the EV tariffs I see opportunities for Canada, we have factories, some of the raw materials, Human Resources, experienceand logistics in place for the automotive industry! The Ev industry needs more than the cars there is a new ecosystem that can be worked with Chinese companies by doing knowledge transfer, manufacture autos + parts by bringing the suppliers as well. EVs need batteries and the charging network, we can bring these items to the trade talks.
China al has the largest high-speed rail network and why not expand the deals to help Canada build our high-speed rail Network?
Canada can do this and all other things without close relationships with China or other dictatorships. Such governments aren’t reliable partners. There are no human rights in China, no willingness to make supply chains transparent, an the country shields off it domestic markets from foreign competition.
The only thing you mentioned that is real is China is a dictatorship, it is on their constitution “Dictatorship of the people”.
I’m sure you want the good of Canada but like everyone else has been heavily influenced by western propaganda to dismiss China or any other Country that isn’t white western nation!
Not negotiating with dictatorship means no trade between Canada and Saudi Arabia, United States, Hungary, Turkey, Israel.
- Why China isn’t a reliable partner? Can you back your information with real data?
- why China supply chain isn’t transparent? Do you work in the industry? Have you visited China to check the suppliers?
- “China shields itself from foreign competition” isn’t what we just did with Chinese evs to protect from competition?
You got no information about Chinese supply chains, even transparency of stock listed companies in China are almost zero. China is heavily working against transparency standards in supply chains.
China is highly unreliable. Just look at China’s Belt and Road Initiative ‘partners’ and how they do (or look at those who decided to leave the initiative).
There is ample evidence. I also sure you want the best for Canada but like everyone else has been heavily influenced by Chinese propaganda to dismiss China critics absurdly accusing them of being a racist.
I haven’t accused anyone not even you! But you seem to be complete delusional just repeating racist and xenophobia against China without any proof, that’s what I asked and you just go on a rant about China or matter of about any country that isn’t part of the white western nations.
I’d buy a Chinese EV. I need an inexpensive vehicle to go from A to B in a city. There doesn’t seem to be an inexpensive option anymore in North America.
Mext municipal election you should make sure to vote for the person who’s championing stronger public transit options. I still have my car from loving in Ottawa but I barely touch it these days(usually for going to Ottawa, because I can easily get to Gare Centrale with the metro here but once I get to Ottawa it starts getting rough fast if I try to leave the LRT(and before the LRT it was a complete impossibility). Not to mention that it costs more because of the mess we made of privatising CN and shooting VIA rail in both its feet.
It takes me 35min to drive to work, by public transit it would take me 2h. Ontario is fucked.
Yup. It’s not why I left but it is why I’m never moving back.
“inexpensive vehicle” usually means a pre-owned vehicle and there are plenty of affordable pre-owned EVs and hybrids on the market. If you’re the kind who buys new cars, then Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are the least expensive. If you compare with new ICE cars, don’t forget to account for gasoline cost.
Sounds like an easy decision; we sell our rapeseed and get non-American cars.
With Canada so obsessed with keeping vehicle manufacturing jobs to the detriment of every Canadian not wanting to buy American cars. Why does Canada drop the Chinese tarrifs but demand certain assembly and manufacturing of Chinese vehicles happen in Canada?
Sounds like a win win, but they are too stuck on the idea they should only manufacture cars from incumbent companies that are stuck in the past. Canada has significant geological resources like lithium and rare earth metals is an even better reason to be excited about EV production in Canada.
Because cars assembled in Canada cost more, a lot more compared to slave labour.
Serious question; how much does China subsidize EV sales to glut markets and buy market share? I’m guessing it’s non-zero.
I’d love to see canola embargoes open because I have a bunch of bins full, but is this fair to other vendors, domestic and other foreign makers?
I say we do this. The ONLY reason Canada put tariffs on Chinese EVs is because of the US - back when the US was our friend. Those days are well over.
From what I understand, Chinese EVs out perform the US ones (charge quicker with longer range) and are way cheaper.
I have a security concern with Chinese EVs.
They’re far too computerized, and connected, at this point.
The last thing I want is the ability for the Chinese government to disable a quarter of the Canadian vehicle fleet if they decided they wanted to. Or potentially even worse than disabling them in some cases.
Canada should not buy those american F35’s for exactly the same reason(s).
I don’t disagree with that.
American cars are the same, and China hasn’t joked about making us their 24th province.
No, China hasn’t joked about that, but they will do so if they can.
I’m far less concerned about the American government disabling vehicles in Canada. If America wanted to take us over we couldn’t even dream of stopping them.
China could benefit from causing problems though.
At this point it’s not even inconceivable for Americans to do something as retaliation for, say, Dougie Ford shutting down electricity. Or use it as a bargain chip as part of playing it tough in a negotiation.
Or forget the taking us over bit. It’s not the taking over that is hard for them, it’s keeping control. We can very effectively resist and make the occupation extremely costly for them. Every bit of leverage they have makes this harder.
Fuck, is it that inconceivable that if they go full Gilead they wouldn’t start shit like controlling whether you can drive your car to an abortion clinic?
China isn’t Canada’s friend. Spending money on Chinese goods means you are funding Russia’s war against Ukraine.
If you need to import something, why not import it from the EU? They make EVs. As does South Korea.
This reasoning is weird. Was buying American goods or UK goods or German goods funding Israel’s genocide in Gaza??
Why buying Chinese goods funding Chinese genocide in Xinjiang, Tibet, Inner Mongolia?
Are you asking me or the person I’m responding to? They are the one that started talking about buying things as funding genocides. I merely questioned the consistency of applying the principle.
Australians have access to Chinese EVs, why can’t we?
On October 8th, after Carney’s meeting with Trump, Lutnick said that the US is going to insist on dominating the North American auto market and have assembly all happen in the US with Canada being forced into a subordinate role.
We need alternatives.
I doubt we will make this deal with China, because the US will not tolerate that, but it would be much better for Canadians.
It would be a catastrophe for Canadians as China seeks to exploit trade opportunities with other countries while at the same time protect its home markets through a wide range of measures no Western country has ever done. Just look at China’s trade balances, for example, and you see what happens. But I guess not all people want to see the truth.
Sock puppet Scotty, at it again, joined by sock puppet randomname this time. What time are you two clocking off for the day?
Wanna see a trick? I can make bots appear, watch this:
Maybe if China agrees to stop being a threat to Taiwan, stops interfering in our politics, and stops spying on us, and builds some auto plants here to employ some Canadians, we can talk about their fucking EVs. Until then, we already have one international bully as a trade partner, we don’t need more.
Canada lied about stop selling arms to israel who are we to gives lessons?
The reasons we have tariffs on China has nothing to do with bs you spew we did it to protect the usa car industry
The American and Japanese auto industries both employ Canadians.
Chinese would also employ Canadians or any other countries investing in Canada. Why couldn’t we start investing in our own companies to build cars?
Chinese would also employ Canadians or any other countries investing in Canada.
No. Chinese factories abroad employ Chinese migrant workers as it has been also said here on Lemmy multiple times. Also, Canadian suppliers won’t be deliver much as Chinese EV makes employ their own suppliers from integrated value chains.
@DonkMagnum @IndridCold Not a fan of China, but it’s sort of rich to demand non-interference when inferring some interference ourselves.
Maybe if China agrees to stop being a threat to Taiwan, stops interfering in our politics
Also this is rich:
builds some auto plants here to employ some Canadians,
So does that mean we will be basing our canola growers in China?
You forgot one thing, when OP has a bad take it is called “the correct opinion and the obvious stance expressed with freedom” when some else does (or has a good take that OP doesn’t like) it’s called bots interfering in our politics.
lol. Do you really think the economic impact of our canola industry is on par with the potential impact Chinese EVs? It’s a ridiculous notion.
Is it? Have you run the numbers?
Just think about the amount of land in Canada dedicated to growing canola vs the amount dedicated to building EVs. Or the number of people employed, for that matter.
@DonkMagnum No, I do not.
But it does beg the question why you didn’t lead with that instead of your cute grandstanding initial comment.
