Liberalism arises historically with the bourgeoisie, promising universal rights, free markets, and political representation.

Its core contradiction: it proclaims universal freedom but maintains private property, class hierarchies, and colonial domination.

Its “progressive” content (rights etc) is always mediated by its “reactionary” content (capital accumulation, imperialism).

In the late 20th century, liberal politics shifted focus from material redistribution to recognition and representation of identities (race, gender, sexuality).

This has real emancipatory elements (civil rights, anti-discrimination), but within a liberal framework it tends to:

Fragment the working class into competing identity groups.

Leave capitalist property relations untouched.

Turn politics into a symbolic arena of inclusion/exclusion rather than redistribution.

This becomes what some call “neoliberal multiculturalism”.

The Alienation of the Proletariat:

Workers whose economic position deteriorates under neoliberal globalization see elites championing diversity while offshoring jobs and cutting welfare.

They perceive “liberal elites” as hypocritical or hostile — not because they oppose equality per se, but because the equality on offer seems to bypass their economic suffering.

This creates fertile ground for reactionary movements that reframe their economic grievances as cultural ones.

The Dialectic: Liberalism to Fascism

If we think dialectically:

Thesis (Liberalism): Universal rights, formal equality, market freedom.

Antithesis (Proletarian Alienation): Mass discontent over the gap between formal equality and real inequality.

Synthesis (Fascism): A counter-movement that rejects universalism but mobilizes identity (national, racial, religious) to restore a sense of collective belonging and purpose.

Fascism thus does not arise ex nihilo; it is the reaction to liberal contradictions:

Liberalism’s fragmentation of solidarity enables fascism’s call for a unified, “authentic” national identity.

Liberal elites’ cosmopolitanism enables fascism’s anti-globalist populism.

Liberal tolerance of corporate power enables fascism’s authoritarian alliance with capital.

Fascism is hence the “Degenerate Offspring” of Liberalism

You can theorize fascism here as:

Not simply a negation but a mutation of liberal politics: it retains mass politics, identity focus, and even some welfare-state promises — but only for the “in-group.”

A perverse form of “recognition politics” where instead of expanding recognition, it contracts it violently.

The endpoint of liberalism’s failure to resolve class contradiction: when equality cannot be achieved materially, it is abandoned and replaced with exclusionary hierarchy.

This would mirror Marx’s notion that each stage of history contains the seeds of its own negation.

This theory does not mean liberal politics intends fascism. Just that its contradictions enable fascism.

Overcoming fascism requires not just defending liberal norms, since the radical aspects of it which have been valuable are being attacked, but transcending liberalism’s economic foundations — i.e., re-centering class and material redistribution.

Now I’m no Hegelian, my understanding of Hegel and Marx is fairly limited. But this is the best I could do put forth the reasoning for fascism and where to move forward.

This is also not US centric, I am not american and am seeing fascism and surveillance states rise around the world. While fascism used to be a fear of ‘the other’ as an outsider, we’re seeing a world where fascism uses citizens as ‘the other’ now.

I would love to go more in depth here. I would like to incorporate naom Chomsky’s idea of manufacturing consent to show how the alienation is created.

In a genuinely Hegelian sense, capitalism contains the seeds of its own transcendence. But contrary to Marx, this transcendence is not socialist.

Through ideological domination the working class is stripped of its revolutionary potential. The only remaining agent capable of resolving capitalism’s crises is the capitalist class itself.

This class resolves contradictions not by abolishing capital but by restructuring the state around authoritarian and nationalist principles.

Thus the dialectic moves from capitalism to fascism, not because of proletarian liberation, but because of capital’s own drive for self-preservation.

  • erin@piefed.blahaj.zone
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    1 day ago

    What do you suggest? Obviously equal rights are a good thing. It honestly feels like the identity politics part isn’t nearly as important as capitalism is. I don’t even agree that the workers are driven away by inclusive elites paying lip service but continuing to grind up the poor for capital, I think the far more significant player is conservatism in general. Some people just care more about having an out-group to persecute than class identity or general welfare.

    The modern media machine is ultimately under monopoly by capitalists. Identity politics isn’t the cause, it’s a symptom. They, the capitalists, drive it all. Too often I see leftists choosing to sacrifice the “lesser good” of equality, blaming it as too divisive, and claiming that it will all be fixed after the revolution. I don’t think that’s necessarily what you’re arguing, but it’s a short logical leap from “identity politics is bad” to “identity groups shouldn’t be protected.” Ultimately it really seems like you fell for the same distraction as the masses, only with an intellectual flair to make you feel superior to them. Again, identity politics isn’t the cause, it’s a symptom.

    • SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      1 day ago

      Let me start off by what I suggest since that’s the first thing you mentioned: Building class consciousness and politics revolving around labour. Even a Bernie like figure is good enough for the US at this point. But all political conversation should start off and be dominated by talking about labour.

      What this leads to I cannot and would not dare say. For I can’t know myself.

      Now for the rest. Maybe you’re right, maybe people do care for having an out group to hate, but that out group is being carefully created and handed to them in a platter to persecute. Its being baked into the public psyche, I see so many people complain about trans people who’ve never seen or encountered one simply bc despite being a fraction of the population. Yet they are a primary concern that power is being fought over. What bathroom 20 people in a state go to dictates elections. That should not be the case.

      Yes you’re right about modern media, as I said I’d like to incorporate Naom Chomsky’s idea of manufacturing consent in here. But the media is a tool, a very overpowered tool but a tool nonetheless. A tool the capitalists use to propogage the division of the working class. To alienate us from ourselves. And oh how well its worked.

      Now i do not in any way suggest we ought to sacrifice the rights of minorities. I understand why you’d see the logical leap there, I don’t, but I understand your reasoning.

      I certainly feel that liberation needs to come from worker rights and we need to see ourselves and others as workers before anything else and our goal should be to build that awareness amongst our societies.

      Similarly this idea came from a desire of charting the course of history and noticing fascism emerging around the globe and analysing political trends.

      On my more personal opinions: I don’t like complacency in this political setup, I feel like playing the game that’s set for us by capitalists is a sure fire way of allowing ourselves no role in historic development and being subject to the whims of our oppressors. We have to create our own politics.

      I get the instant distrust regarding my idea. On the face if does sound iffy (and I am a bit of a provocateur I know).

      • erin@piefed.blahaj.zone
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        1 day ago

        Thanks for the in depth reply. I generally personally reject the left/right labels and prefer to frame politics are pro- or anti-worker, so I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.

  • Unruffled [they/them]@anarchist.nexus
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    3 days ago

    So the argument is that identity politics has effectively supplanted class politics? I think it’s perhaps a factor if not the whole story. But I don’t think they are mutually exclusive. It’s just that the Dems decided to focus on one and not the other.

    • SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      3 days ago

      I’m more interested in the dialectic movement of identity politics. But yes class politics has been left stranded, that is an important point. And ofc the dems don’t want to focus on it.

    • aislopmukbang@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      Lemmy is an echo chamber like every other social media platform. Echo chambers encourage black and white thinking ie a strict right and wrong with little if any room for nuance.

      Communities like this are a joke. You won’t find many that genuinely engage with the points presented

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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      5 days ago

      American normie ain’t ready for this discussion…

      Like any good liberal they want the money and the guilt.

      They worship their billionaires and their “charity” and regime whores while fighting culture wars on their behalf.

      To ask them to question these arrangements causes them mental discomfort.

  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    I wholeheartedly agree. This caused two world wars and is currently fomenting a third.

    • SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      5 days ago

      I would be hesitant to incorporate the world wars within this argument. I’d like to hear why you think so.

      My understanding of the world wars is limited, not a part of history I’ve been as fascinated by and hence not very knowledgeable about.

  • SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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    6 days ago

    (I used chat gpt to clarify my language as the original draft was a meandering mess, the idea is my own, although I’m sure its already well discussed and established, and the argument is my own. The language has just been made clearer to understand.)

    • mienshao@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Very obvious an AI wrote this. Reads like a Marx Mad Lib. Shitty ideas, shitty language—just shit all the way down.