If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can’t install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn’t I go with Apple?
Openness isn’t just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
Identifying the devs is not in the “need to know” for Google. Google sells or helps to sell a general purpose open device where it is on us to exploit that device however we will.
Now Google wants to switch to a walled garden, moderated development model.
If Google promises it won’t use those dev IDs to moderate development, their promise is only worth the wind it moves and the sound it makes.
now while at first view, your sentiment is understandable, i actually kinda differ.
when you buy any product at any store, i believe that there has to be a legal entity behind the store that sells you this product, and the legal entity needs to be identifiable. i.e. if you run a shop and give packages to people, you need to show ID to open up that shop. i believe it is the same for charity organizations which give away packages for free.
now, why would it be different for apps? apps are software packages, and if they’re given away, there should be a legal entity behind it that is identifiable. this isn’t to surveil or suppress people, it’s just how business has always been done, and for good reason so. businesses need legal representatives to operate, even if it’s a charity, because otherwise there’s nobody to “talk to” when there’s issues, and also imposters would have an easy game.
that doesn’t mean that you can’t donate packages away on the streets. just put it in front of your front door and wait until somebody passes by and takes it, or give it directly into the hands of your friends, you don’t need to open a business for that. just, if you do it regularly, interacting with people you don’t personally know, there is a legal entity that represents that recurring activity, like a business or charity.
If i understand it correctly, even with the new changes, what can be done is that open software distribution sites like F-Droid can sign the packages instead of the original developers and therefore circumvent the identification of the original developers, and also you can still install unsigned third-party apps if you enter a command on the command line to disable ID certificate checking. it’s just an extra step, not a block-all.
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
Yeah but my banks don’t support my small portable PC, nor does my mobile phone provider. If I wanted a small portable PC I’d get a small portable PC. What I want is a smartphone.
$600 is pocket change for a phone these days. And for that $600 you’re getting a flagship phone. You couldn’t pay me enough money to put up with a non-flagship. Been there, done that. They’re too slow and frustrating, and apps keep closing due to lack of RAM. Never again. I much rather spend $600-800 on a high-end device that’s a couple of generations old.
I have used tracfone since 2012 and only bought phones from their store, sub $150. The budget phones today are so much better than the last 10 years.
I just can’t wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year and it cost as much as a decent budget computer, but worse.
I just can’t wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year
Usually the people who replace their flagship phone every 1 - 2 years aren’t paying full price for it, or at least not upfront. They are receiving trade-in and pre-order discounts, or spreading the cost out over a 12 - 24 month period through a plan with their telco.
I used my last phone for about 4 years. At that point the battery life was getting worse, and the coating to prevent smudges and make your finger slide easily had worn off in the middle. Even then it’s still perfectly usable, I just wanted an upgrade and to get away from Samsung.
I don’t understand the people that upgrade every year or two. In the last 5 years basically the only new development has been higher refresh rate displays and faker looking (more processed) camera images…
I don’t think people are doing it because the new phones have better specs. It’s more a social status flex or because tech consumerism (buying new toys) is a default hobby now for many.
That’s unfortunate. Personally I can barely tell all the black rectangles apart. It’s a utility for me, not a fashion accessory. Maybe if it was, I’d have an iPhone
Surely cost relative to income is more relevant than cost relative to the rest of the market? Something doesn’t magically become cheap just because everything else is ridiculously expensive.
Apple hardware has always been a generation ahead. Even when android/qualcom catches up, next generation is out already. The reason to avoid apple was it being a closed system money grab.
a18pro beats M3 max in single core. Compared to 7840hs, it has 40% high single score geekbench 6, though 50% less multicore. Even beats ai395max at single score. Android competition catches up to even in gaming/gpu, but single core/responsiveness is still light years ahead. a19 next month, likely. M3 ultra has competitive aspects to xeon and epyc. Apple definitely has a lead on arm implementations.
I’m just saying Apple doesn’t make anything close to a cheap stripped down $200 model.
I made the comparison based on feature set. For that you need an android flagship phone. Android DOES make cheap phones…but therexs no 1:1 comparison for Apple.
I already tend to buy the expensive flagship models of phones. I buy unlocked and it lasts me ~5+ years, so I get the best phone I can get at the time and make it last, so money isn’t as much of an issue if I were to move to an iPhone.
If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can’t install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn’t I go with Apple?
Openness isn’t just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
Identifying the devs is not in the “need to know” for Google. Google sells or helps to sell a general purpose open device where it is on us to exploit that device however we will.
Now Google wants to switch to a walled garden, moderated development model.
If Google promises it won’t use those dev IDs to moderate development, their promise is only worth the wind it moves and the sound it makes.
You might say their words are like farts in the wind
We don’t even need to assume: https://torrentfreak.com/apple-revokes-eu-distribution-rights-for-torrent-client-developer-left-in-the-dark/
now while at first view, your sentiment is understandable, i actually kinda differ.
when you buy any product at any store, i believe that there has to be a legal entity behind the store that sells you this product, and the legal entity needs to be identifiable. i.e. if you run a shop and give packages to people, you need to show ID to open up that shop. i believe it is the same for charity organizations which give away packages for free.
now, why would it be different for apps? apps are software packages, and if they’re given away, there should be a legal entity behind it that is identifiable. this isn’t to surveil or suppress people, it’s just how business has always been done, and for good reason so. businesses need legal representatives to operate, even if it’s a charity, because otherwise there’s nobody to “talk to” when there’s issues, and also imposters would have an easy game.
that doesn’t mean that you can’t donate packages away on the streets. just put it in front of your front door and wait until somebody passes by and takes it, or give it directly into the hands of your friends, you don’t need to open a business for that. just, if you do it regularly, interacting with people you don’t personally know, there is a legal entity that represents that recurring activity, like a business or charity.
If i understand it correctly, even with the new changes, what can be done is that open software distribution sites like F-Droid can sign the packages instead of the original developers and therefore circumvent the identification of the original developers, and also you can still install unsigned third-party apps if you enter a command on the command line to disable ID certificate checking. it’s just an extra step, not a block-all.
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
Yeah but my banks don’t support my small portable PC, nor does my mobile phone provider. If I wanted a small portable PC I’d get a small portable PC. What I want is a smartphone.
$600 is pocket change for a phone these days. And for that $600 you’re getting a flagship phone. You couldn’t pay me enough money to put up with a non-flagship. Been there, done that. They’re too slow and frustrating, and apps keep closing due to lack of RAM. Never again. I much rather spend $600-800 on a high-end device that’s a couple of generations old.
A $200 phone in 2015 is not the same as a $200 phone in 2025. I know from experience.
Those phones in 2015 were awful, but in 2025, they feel more like mid-range phones.
Edit: And $600 is pocket change? Sound like someone lived a privilaged life.
This 100%
I have used tracfone since 2012 and only bought phones from their store, sub $150. The budget phones today are so much better than the last 10 years.
I just can’t wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year and it cost as much as a decent budget computer, but worse.
People who upgrade every year sell their old one at >50% the price.
So they don’t fork over €600, they only do €250 or so.
Usually the people who replace their flagship phone every 1 - 2 years aren’t paying full price for it, or at least not upfront. They are receiving trade-in and pre-order discounts, or spreading the cost out over a 12 - 24 month period through a plan with their telco.
I used my last phone for about 4 years. At that point the battery life was getting worse, and the coating to prevent smudges and make your finger slide easily had worn off in the middle. Even then it’s still perfectly usable, I just wanted an upgrade and to get away from Samsung.
I don’t understand the people that upgrade every year or two. In the last 5 years basically the only new development has been higher refresh rate displays and faker looking (more processed) camera images…
I don’t think people are doing it because the new phones have better specs. It’s more a social status flex or because tech consumerism (buying new toys) is a default hobby now for many.
That’s unfortunate. Personally I can barely tell all the black rectangles apart. It’s a utility for me, not a fashion accessory. Maybe if it was, I’d have an iPhone
I make $19/hr and live paycheck to paycheck. I’m just being realistic about the current cell phone market.
Surely cost relative to income is more relevant than cost relative to the rest of the market? Something doesn’t magically become cheap just because everything else is ridiculously expensive.
Apple hardware has always been a generation ahead. Even when android/qualcom catches up, next generation is out already. The reason to avoid apple was it being a closed system money grab.
Apple hardware ahead of Android? I’ll have what you’re having!
a18pro beats M3 max in single core. Compared to 7840hs, it has 40% high single score geekbench 6, though 50% less multicore. Even beats ai395max at single score. Android competition catches up to even in gaming/gpu, but single core/responsiveness is still light years ahead. a19 next month, likely. M3 ultra has competitive aspects to xeon and epyc. Apple definitely has a lead on arm implementations.
Please show me a single benchmark with a flagship android beating a flagship iPhone.
Credit where credit is due, iOS runs lighter than Android and thus needs less powerful hardware, simply: JVM vs LLVM ObjC
The only answer is money at that point. I don’t know how much phones are these days, but aren’t iPhones like $1400, but Android is like $900?
I may be wrong though. Last time I bought a phone was 2018, and it was $600. Still using it.
You can get Android phones with reasonable specs around $200. No need for the so called “flagships”.
Oh, I was comparing flagships, because iphone doesn’t have a non-flagship to compare to.
You probably didn’t do it on purpose, but you made a comparison on Apple’s terms, thus implicitly priveleging Apple.
Last thing Apple needs is us priveleging it.
I’m just saying Apple doesn’t make anything close to a cheap stripped down $200 model.
I made the comparison based on feature set. For that you need an android flagship phone. Android DOES make cheap phones…but therexs no 1:1 comparison for Apple.
Yes, I think that’s exactly the point people are trying to make to you.
i have a phone for less than $200 and it works fine.
The regular iPhone and S25 are exactly the same price.
The S25 ultra is $100 MORE expensive than the iPhone 16 pro max.
https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-s25-ultra/buy/galaxy-s25-ultra-256gb-unlocked-sku-sm-s938uzkaxaa/
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-16-pro
I already tend to buy the expensive flagship models of phones. I buy unlocked and it lasts me ~5+ years, so I get the best phone I can get at the time and make it last, so money isn’t as much of an issue if I were to move to an iPhone.