Glad they’re taking off the gloves a little, but it’s always been a non-option to just make our lives significantly and irrevocably better like M4A or the PRO act and although they’re good at trying and failing, they never talk about the consequences as dire as they actually are with few exceptions.

      • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        False dichotomy, not false equivalency. Two different things.

        if I have a choice to be policed by Chauvin or Thao, there is no question that I choose Thao.

        Right here is the false dichotomy, considering the context of the comment this was written in reply to (the one by meatbridge) being a metaphor for voting, equating Chauvin to Republicans and Thao to Democrats.

        You frame it as if we only had two choices. Which is verifiably wrong.

        • memfree@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          2 days ago

          If we are talking about voting in U.S. federal elections, voters only have two choices. Third party candidates can not win with the current structure. If all states switched to ranked choice voting, and if states divided House seats by percentage of voters per party instead of winner-take-all for each gerrymandered region of a map, THEN there could be more than two options. I would like to see that happen.

          • piefood@feddit.online
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            2 days ago

            You are correct that 3rd parties can’t win. But how is voting for either of the other two options winning? I’ve seen both in power for the last few decades, and it’s a shit-show either way.

            You may not like the other options, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.

            • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 day ago

              Because the goal of voting is to influence governance. It is not an end unto itself. Yes, you can vote for other parties. You can also vote for Donald Duck. It just has no effect.

              In terms of which party will govern, there are two options. Choose the one you despise least. And then do whatever you think is necessary to end the duopoly outside of the general election.

              • piefood@feddit.online
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 day ago

                Well, what I think is ncecessary to end the duopoly is to show both of them that I’m not going to vote for either of them, until one of them starts to do what I want. And voting 3rd party sends a signal as to what policies they should adopt if they want my vote.

                • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  9 hours ago

                  I disagree. You’ll never convince enough people to pursue this strategy to matter because it involves making your material position dramatically worse for some unknown but probably very extended period of time. If MAGA rules for the next 2 decades there won’t be any way for leftists to gain power even if that did somehow result in enough people joining you. They are already moving quickly to end democracy in the US.

                  I think if you want to make third parties viable there needs to be electoral reform, which will have to happen with the consent of at least one of the two existing parties. Or you pursue politics outside of electoralist strategies. Which is my view, and is a much more effective way to get concessions from the existing parties anyway.

                  • piefood@feddit.online
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 day ago

                    It comes down to whichever outcome you think is more likely to happen. Either:

                    A) The Democratic leadership stops resisting, and starts doing what the voters want
                    or
                    B) A third-party will gain power

                    I think B is much more likely, as the Democratic leadership has clearly demonstrated that they’d rather let the Republicans win, than do what the voters want. If you want to try to make A happen, then be my guest. I hope to be proven wrong. But from watching the Dems in the past few decades, it’s clear to me that B is more likely.

                    They are already moving quickly to end democracy in the US.

                    You mean the Democracy where we get to vote for genocide or genocide? or how about the bombing of those kids, vs those other kids? Or how about this mass surveillance system vs that mass surveillance system?

            • Wiz@midwest.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              2 days ago

              You are trying to bring emotion to a math fight. Third parties will not be able to win under the current system.

                • Wiz@midwest.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  Tell me how the Guillotine Party is doing in Russia. Because the U.S. is heading that direction rapidly.