I recall there being angry letters sent about how it was inappropriate for a kid, and who ever responded basically said [heavily paraphrasing] ‘there’s guns, violence and death and you draw the line at two women kissing? Fuck off’
one theory is that ds9 was fucking great and discovery waa poo poo.
which had fuck all to do with gay people. I mean, I guess it may have in a sense now thst I think abojt it, but only in the narrowest of ways and as an overt symptom of 2 dimensional character writing. Paul Stamets’ partner’s whole character was basically “I’m a gay doctor”, which combined with “my whole character is that I have anxiety” Tilly and Michale “I have problems with authority” Burnham really show how weak the writing was.
which, if you stop and think about it, has anout as much do with being gay as flowers do with the plot of The Room.
100% right. Plus they were late to the party: the Shatner-Nichols kiss was absolutely groundbreaking on television in 1968, but a gay kiss on streaming in 2017 was not.
Some people hated Discovery because of progressive values, sure, but I hated it because these values were packaged in such flat characters as you said, participating in sci-fi stories that were just plain bad.
By the point we saw the crying space baby, my expectations were already very low 😂
The whole concept of The Burn annoyed me from the beginning. It’s not that it makes less sense than warp drive or subspace comms, but it somehow didn’t fit with the established “science” of Star Trek.
Why didn’t those people get outraged with Jadzia’s lesbian kiss in DS9 in the 90ies?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Rejoined_Dax_and_Lenara_kiss.png
They did, but not as many of them. And most kept it to themselves because they liked it.
Because women kissing women is sexy to straight men.
Men kissing men is not sexy to those same men.
It’s misogyny.
I’d say more objectification than misogyny in this case.
I recall there being angry letters sent about how it was inappropriate for a kid, and who ever responded basically said [heavily paraphrasing] ‘there’s guns, violence and death and you draw the line at two women kissing? Fuck off’
one theory is that ds9 was fucking great and discovery waa poo poo.
which had fuck all to do with gay people. I mean, I guess it may have in a sense now thst I think abojt it, but only in the narrowest of ways and as an overt symptom of 2 dimensional character writing. Paul Stamets’ partner’s whole character was basically “I’m a gay doctor”, which combined with “my whole character is that I have anxiety” Tilly and Michale “I have problems with authority” Burnham really show how weak the writing was.
which, if you stop and think about it, has anout as much do with being gay as flowers do with the plot of The Room.
100% right. Plus they were late to the party: the Shatner-Nichols kiss was absolutely groundbreaking on television in 1968, but a gay kiss on streaming in 2017 was not.
Some people hated Discovery because of progressive values, sure, but I hated it because these values were packaged in such flat characters as you said, participating in sci-fi stories that were just plain bad.
The only reason I disliked any of the gay was that it was pandering. Everyone was gay first and a person second.
Maybe I’m a bit backwards in this but I seriously could not give less of a shit who someone chooses to fuck and be romantically involved with.
I do. not. fucking. care.
I don’t care if your partner is the same gender as you, a different sex, or a fucking level 13 druid owl otherkin.
It has zero effect on me.
Which also means that if your whole personality boils down to “I’m gay” or “I’m straight” then your whole personality is SUPER uninteresting.
It applies to art, too. Pandering is lazy, it is not engaging, and it is straight up bad writing.
Could not agree with you both more.
I tried to watch Discovery. Forced myself through season one and only could manage a few episodes in season two.
The writing is just so bad, I can’t handle it. This coming from someone that regularly rewatches older Trek and DOESN’T SKIP the few awful episodes.
I forced myself through every episode. It picked up and I got kinda into it and then crying space baby shit happened and threw it all away.
By the point we saw the crying space baby, my expectations were already very low 😂
The whole concept of The Burn annoyed me from the beginning. It’s not that it makes less sense than warp drive or subspace comms, but it somehow didn’t fit with the established “science” of Star Trek.