“Imperialism in the 21st century” was a very eye opening read for me and I was surprised to see this from Smith in an interview, comrades please help me understand:
“Marxist-Leninist” refers to the ideology espoused by the bureaucratic rulers of the former Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China and all those around the world who look to them for leadership, but in my opinion, there is no Marxism or Leninism in so-called “Marxism-Leninism”. We cannot get anywhere until we call things by their true names, so I insist on describing both the Moscow or Beijing varieties of these ideologies as Stalinist. This might upset some people or be misinterpreted as factional name-calling, but the alternative is to perpetuate an extremely harmful falsehood—one which is energetically promoted by bourgeois politicians and opinion-formers of all types, from the liberal left to the far right, all of whom are aware of how much damage they can do to the revolutionary workers’ movement by identifying socialism, communism and the liberatory ideas of Marx and Lenin with the disgusting brutality and corruption of the bureaucratic castes which once ruled the Soviet Union and which continue to rule over China (indeed, the capitalist ruling class presently in power in Russia is almost entirely composed of former “Marxist-Leninists”).
“Marxism-Leninism” served the rulers of the USSR and PRC not as a guide to action, but as a cloak of deception, a means of legitimizing their rule. They claimed allegiance to the same theories and philosophies as do I, but their doctrine of “peaceful coexistence” with imperialism stands in the clearest possible contradiction with everything that Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin stood for.
https://mronline.org/2019/03/19/john-smith-on-imperialism-part-1/
[Edit] Following from this I looked to my other eye-opening author, Zak Cope (Divided World, Divided Class) and found this where he disavows his entire work and all anticapitalism, just read the abstract and note 1:
https://link.springer.com/rwe/10.1007/978-3-031-25399-7_82-2
What the fuck is happening?
Sounds little different from the usual “no true socialism unless it’s safely kept unmarred by practice” that is common in the west: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:Western_Marxism,_the_fetish_for_defeat,_and_Christian_culture
The quoted premise here, that either of these governments/parties were/are in “peaceful coexistence with imperialism,” is utter nonsense. The USSR was a monster under the bed for the imperialists and they waged a cold war against it and won. Now they are trying to do the same thing with China. I would say the main difference in the way that AES states approach conflict is not that they want to “peacefully coexist” with exploitative powers, it’s that they actually value human life and don’t see people as empty husks for capital, and so their priority is in deescalation, in building rather than destroying, in interdependence rather than domination. In other words, their goal is not to approach the world as the imperialist/colonizer does, as a bunch of “savages” run astray who need to be tortured and murdered into submission, until they live life by the doctrine of the leaders; this would be contradictory to the goals and mindset of socialism and communism. Instead, their goal is to advance liberation, humanization, and the betterment of the global proletariat, which means there is no people who is an inherent enemy and they would always prefer peace and connection with other peoples whenever possible.
That said, AES states cannot have peace with imperialism because their existence alone is a threat to the imperialists. They will try to be diplomatic and deescalate for various reasons anyway, but they are not breaking from marxism for not throwing all of their weight into waging direct hot war against imperialism on the global stage. Marxism and related theory is not a war-mongering ideology or practice, it is an ongoing process of observing material conditions as best as possible and responding accordingly in a way that advances the goals of the global working class, the global colonized, the most marginalized of society. It is not a sacrificial cult ideology, in which everyone throws themself on the pyre for the barest chance of taking out another imperialist.
I think some people mix up desperate conditions of extreme existential crisis, and subsequent desperate action, with universal principle. There are times that great sacrifice is asked of peoples and some of them respond accordingly, but this is not a fundamental ask of marxism, it is a result of peoples who have been, or still are, in dire situations, their people in extreme poverty, repression, etc.
What action is the most appropriate response for a given situation is not always clear and can be up for some debate and will at times have some splitting on it, due to growing disagreements. But one thing must be clear, that marxism is a science, not a weapon, and people of AES states are not under some kind of moral or theory-based obligation to sacrifice everything trying to end global exploitation in a fortnight. Their circumstances are complicated and varied, organizing them in any capacity has challenges as organizing does everywhere, and they aren’t much of a humane society to be able to exist in if there aren’t people living regular lives doing regular things, without having to be in a constant state of hypervigilance and jingoism.
It’s giving me shades of what Parenti mentions about the “non-falsifiable orthodoxy” of anticommunism. Particularly:
When an AES state gets directly involved in a conflict against imperialism, they get called imperialist for flexing military might. When they vie for peace, they get called accommodating of exploitation. There is this shifting rhetoric at times where it’s like they are expected to somehow end exploitation both without firing a shot and without making any deals with an imperialist power; but this would only put them in a position where they are isolated and unarmed, which is exactly where the imperialist wants them to be.
He’s argument is actually quite different though, he expands on this in part 2 of the interview:
I don’t think his criticisms of the USSR or prominent cold war narratives actually helps him answer his question very well. Does he think that the Russian Federation would not or has not attempted to coexist with western powers? Is Russia no longer white now that it isn’t communist or something? Oh, and we are lacking leaders like Fidel etc.,… who took support from the USSR. Where such leaders just erasing their own struggle in favor of a East-West struggle by doing this? Were they racist against themselves by doing so?
A bit exhausting but needs some grounding to set this point up if he can make it better. The struggle against continuity with the Russian Empire is real, but I think there needs to be some way of addressing or challenging what the revolution achieved and what it means before we call Moscow the edge of white Europe. My understanding is that Eastern Europe has long functioned as a kind of periphery/semi-periphery to Western Europe. Interestingly enough, Cope writes about this haha. I don’t necessarily agree that Eastern Europe is white in the same way whiteness manifests in the west. I wish there was more clarity on this because its not like I don’t already have “this is a bit russiaphobic” already in the chamber, almost like I’m being baited so just make the point.
By who? And who recognizes this? I’m not saying there isn’t a good point in here, I just feel like we are erasing what the rest of the world has to say just to make this point that the USSR failed. Maybe others around the world agree to an extent that liberation efforts have been flattened. Does he talk about this more in his book? I haven’t read it all. It does have some third world orientation but I’m 99% sure it was all quantitative.
Seems potentially flattening of third world experiences. Again, who regards these struggles so cynically? The struggling masses?
I don’t disagree that the cold war is often used to oversimplify complex global relations or that the USSR was ultimately unsuccessful in the liberation project it espoused. Its just that if you are going to leverage the global south like this, I think it should be more apparent that Smith is officially grounded by the right voices. Otherwise, it comes across as sanctimonious, that we should be centering this group that agrees with him because they are poorer or less “powerful” than the USSR or something.
I read through. Don’t know what his sources are, but some of it sounds suspect. For example:
According to what I remember from the Blowback Podcast version of events on Korea (which is sourced, though I have not investigated its sources personally), there was a point in it where Korea got help from China and China got some help from the USSR indirectly with resources, albeit not easily. Unless I’m just remembering something really wrongly, the framing that the Stalin USSR was somehow interested in propping up imperialist occupation, and therefore, desiring of the outcome of the US’s brutality toward Korea, seems like a lot of narrative spinning out of very little.
In general, it seems like he is grasping at tenuous events of alleged decisions that were in agreement with an imperialist outcome rather than opposed, and then is placing on top of that a whole narrative of complicity. The USSR took a lot of damage defeating the Nazis and was not positioned favorably in post WWII in the way that the US was.
I’m sure the USSR made some poor decisions in foreign policy, as has China, but I’m extremely skeptical of the way in which he is going about drawing lines between vague mentions of events and complicity with imperialism and then a jump to betrayal of the cause. A strategic mistake is not a betrayal, it’s a strategic mistake. A betrayal needs more system-wide evidence of failure to pursue the cause.
Lastly, the fact that he ends by mentioning as better examples to follow several revolutionary leaders who died early rather than being marred by decades of difficult policy decisions only cements for me the suspicion that he is going down the road I mentioned, about purity and Christian culture in the west. I think it is a valid and reasonable pursuit to question and investigate the extent to which AES states have failed and try to learn from their mistakes, but the way he is going about this seems like a failure of thoroughness and a matter of starting with a narrative already made and then looking for information that will confirm the narrative.
Great points! Aside from what you and comrades loathsome dongeater and thedarkernations said, I’ve also been thinking about Smiths assertion that the fall of the USSR, DDR, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and the entire Eastern Bloc was not a victory for imperialists but actually weakened imperialism, and the only reason we see the very opposite in reality around us is that we lack “revolutionary leaders of the caliber of Lenin, Che, Fidel, Grenada’s Maurice Bishop, Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso and others, and political movements inspired by them, able to take advantage of the imperialists’ growing weakness and disarray.”
This hinges on the great man theory. There are in fact plenty of talented and charismatic organisers throughout the global South and beyond and when the material conditions are right there will be no shortage of people perfectly capable of taking the lead. There’s never a shortage of leaders, what’s lacking is conditions under which the overthrow of imperialism is possible. I think it’s blatantly clear the conditions for fighting imperialism are more difficult now than they were when the Eastern Bloc was strong, as it’s clear that the recent advances in Burkina Faso and elsewhere wouldn’t be possible without China and it’s allies weakening western imperialist powers.
Same to you. That’s a good catch, it does sound a lot like great man theory, now you mention it. And yeah, with Burkina Faso, it makes me think of a video I watched at one point about assassination attempts made on Ibrahim Traoré and how supposedly there was one that was spotted with the help of Russian intelligence. There was also that confirmation about Russia getting some military assistance from the DPRK in Russia’s territory, IIRC on the details. Or just Russia’s allying with China in general. So what I’m getting at it is considering there are indications of today’s Russia collaborating with anti-imperialist AES states, it wouldn’t make much sense if we were to believe the Russia under the USSR did not do so, but Putin’s Russia does. It makes more sense to believe that Russia’s prior history as an AES state and a force for anti-imperialism would make it more trustworthy to AES states now, even though it is currently not one itself. Whereas if it had been overall complicit in imperialism as this person insinuates, even when being one of the strongest socialist powers in history, it would be odd for AES states to trust it at all.