• logicbomb@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I’m not going to read Marjorie Greene’s entire statement so I might theoretically be missing some context, but what does she say here? “Communists aren’t Americans and need to be locked up.”

    That’s just McCarthyism. A bunch of nonsense we should have left behind.

    Even if her accusations of communism were accurate, there isn’t anything in the Constitution that says people who identify as Communists cannot be American citizens. On the other hand, birthright citizenship is specifically granted in the 14th Amendment.

    I truly, honestly, believe that a congressperson saying that AOC, who was born in NYC, isn’t American, is a violation of their oath of office. Marjorie Greene swore to defend the Constitution, and the Constitution couldn’t be any clearer about AOC’s citizenship. I also think that office holders who violate their oath of office should be removed from their office, and that it is the responsibility of other representatives to do so.

    • I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      This happened in 2021. Green was mad about the Green New Deal and AOC failing to “embrace our American ways.” Sorry for the NYPost article, it was the one I found.

      https://nypost.com/2021/06/27/marjorie-taylor-greene-calls-aoc-communist-at-ohio-speech/

      Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tore into Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in a speech Saturday, calling the progressive Democrat a “communist” and criticizing the Green New Deal.

      “She’s not an American. She really doesn’t embrace our American ways,” Greene said about Ocasio-Cortez, who was born in the Bronx, according to Fox News.

      “You want to know why? She has something called the ‘Green New Deal,’” the Georgia Republican said about Ocasio-Cortez’s climate plan.

      Last month Green called AOC a “pathetic little hypocrite” for her comments opposing the US attack on Iran.

      https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-iran-israel-trump-maga-2088910

      Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Georgia Republican, has called out Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat, for her criticism of President Donald Trump’s attack on Iran.

      Greene wrote on X, formerly Twitter, that Ocasio-Cortez, who had said Saturday’s attack was “absolutely and clearly grounds for impeachment,” was a “pathetic little hypocrite.”

      • logicbomb@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        I don’t think it would be a violation of her oath if Greene said something like, “AOC’s actions were unamerican,” or even, “AOC’s actions are not American.”

        But even with this context, I think her saying that AOC “is not an American” is a violation of her oath. You might think, “Greene wouldn’t understand the difference,” but I think that language, as well as her insults, would not be allowed on the floor of congress, so we already have this requirement that they do understand a tiny bit of decorum. Why not expand it to all public statements?

        Honestly, I don’t think it’s healthy to allow our politicians to lie at all. But that would be even harder to police.

      • logicbomb@lemmy.world
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        21 hours ago

        That is a very serious issue. Most of the representatives, if they actually took their oath seriously, would be defending the Constitution. But they’re defending the major donors to their campaigns, instead.

        Now, if I was in that position, I’d follow my oath, and inevitably lose the next time, because my donors would back somebody who would play ball. This conflict of interests means that our current system automatically-selects in favor of corrupt people who don’t care about their oaths.

        So, I am sure you’re right that everybody, or virtually everybody, is an oath breaker. Only a small few can afford to refuse corporate money. We can never fix this problem unless we have significant campaign finance reform.

    • Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org
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      2 days ago

      That’s just McCarthyism. A bunch of nonsense we should have left behind.

      Let this be your takeaway and feel free to pre-emptively apply it to everything else these people say about AOC. It’ll save you time and nerves.

    • Frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 days ago

      It’s all quite the opposite, in fact. From the time of the Revolution onward, there were lots of Americans fighting for the working class against the rich. It’s deeply rooted in our history, and America would never have developed the same way without it. The history books written since the Cold War have glossed over much of it, but it’s not something you can completely remove, either.

      We celebrate Veterans Day as the start of summer, and Labor Day as the end of summer. However, one of these gets a lot more flag waving and attention going on than the other. People literally died for both of those, but Labor Day is treated as just a day off.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        To be fair, labor day has little history. It was picked to take attention away from May Day, the traditional day of labor celebration and activity. May Day tends to be more about action, not just celebration, so the capitalists wanted to pick a different date and new traditions where people just stay home instead of advocating for their best interests.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers’_Day

        • Frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 days ago

          Yes, and I think that only strengthens the point that this was all shooed away where it wouldn’t be a bother.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I think you got it backwards. Labor (Memorial) Day is a real holiday that gets people out and about. Veteran’s Day is no big deal, almost no one gets off work.

    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      a violation of their oath of office

      I like the idea that the way to punish politicians for irresponsible behavior is to hold them seriously accountable to their Oath of Office. Give the oath some teeth, and enforce it.

        • SparroHawc@lemmy.zip
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          2 days ago

          That’s like preventing a disease from being used for political reasons.

          As COVID, a virus that has zero political affiliation and infected nearly everyone equally, proved…

          You can’t.

          • Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            2 days ago

            As COVID, a virus that has zero political affiliation and infected nearly everyone equally, proved…

            Except it didn’t, it infected more people who didn’t vax who leaned primarily Republican

            • towerful@programming.dev
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              1 day ago

              Yeh, it was COVID that went after republicans.
              It wasn’t republicans that politicised COVID and rejected medicine and science.
              It wasn’t republicans listening to republican politicians who called it a hoax, and ignored scientific/medical recommendations.
              It wasn’t COVID that was politicised.
              COVID was created as a political tool to go after specifically American republicans.

              (That’s all sarcasm.
              COVID doesn’t care about your beliefs. It tried to infect nearly everyone. The resistance to being infected is social distancing, masks and vaccines. All of which are super effective. As proven by the fact that the US is no longer losing a 9/11-worth of people PER DAY and the fact that society is mostly back to normal)

              • Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 day ago

                “tried to infect” is not “did infect”. It is unthinking. It doesn’t care about your beliefs. It does “care” about reality of who was vaccinated, which causes it to infect people with vax aligned beliefs less.

    • MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      and that it is the responsibility of other representatives to do so.

      Elect me to Congress and I will immediately begin physically throwing these people out of sessions.

      • Booboofinger@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        They also say it to make headlines and draw attention. Kind of what class clowns did back in grammar school. Some people never grown up (pun intended).

      • Glitterbomb@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I know I deserve ridicule for watching this channel at all, but you should check out the recent Jubilee 1vs20 with Mehdi Hasan.

        They are well past being comfortable calling themselves fascists outright. Not the sarcastic ‘you called me one so I’ll call myself too’ but full tilt yes this is what they think.

        Tldw: Just skip to 22:00 for blue shirt guy.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-WJN3L5eo

        • lemonaz@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Just a thing to keep in mind. These people are all trying to boost their YouTube channels or whatever. They’re creators, not random people. They have a vested interest to act in ways that make them go viral.

          That’s not to say it takes away from the vileness, in fact it intensifies it because it’s all the more deceitful to whoever tunes in. But that’s kind of how fascism spreads: it pretends to be normality until enough people believe it is… and because of that, it actually becomes normal — it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

          So these people may not be anecdotal evidence that it’s being normalized, but rather they are actively doing the normalizing.

        • bumblefumble@mander.xyz
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          2 days ago

          I saw clips of this and thought to post it on Lemmy, but I don’t wanna platform jubilee at all. But yeah it’s fucking crazy how fucking normalized straight up fascism is in today’s world.

      • WanderingThoughts@europe.pub
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        2 days ago

        Right after ICE has been deployed in all major blue cities and any opposition, like any critical journalists, activists and politicians, have been suitable intimidated or disappeared.

    • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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      2 days ago

      You know what they say: if it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck…

      It’s surprisingly easy to get into this argument with people as soon as you use the f-word. Thankfully Wikipedia has a definition of fascism, and if that applies to somebody, then they’re a fascist. I’m done with calling a spade a “nationalist authoritarian gardening implement”.

      Oh, but wikipedia has been taken over by the woke left! Argument terminated.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    Once this bullshit is over -abd one day it will- van we please criminalize calling politicians to be locked up? And I’m not talking about your average Lemmy calling for Trumo to be locked up because of too many to count crimes he committed, I’m talking about politicians calling for locking up other politicians only because you don’t like them.

    If you have a following, first amendment no longer applies to you, you don’t get to say whatever bullshit that springs up in your head.

    • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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      2 days ago

      Germany has a law against Volksverhetzung; I’m pretty sure that would fall under it. Unfortunately they haven’t been very good at enforcing it, esp. on social media. Yet still some 'muricans screech that we’re against ❄️🍑 and therefore fascist - not understanding why and when that law was implemented.

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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        1 day ago

        That law should be applied to anyone with a following of more than 100 people. If you influence more people than you can on a small square then the rules should change and you shouldn’t be allowed to claim whatever shit you want and claim freedom of speech.

        I’d make those rules a lot stricter as well

      • sus@programming.dev
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        2 days ago

        Volksverthetzung is about specific protected classes, which don’t include non-religious ideologies (and l’m not sure if “not american” is a specific enough identity either)

        • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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          2 days ago

          Volksverthetzung is about specific protected classes, which don’t include non-religious ideologies

          That’s just wrong. Read this and realize just how wrong:

          (1) Wer in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören,

          1. gegen eine nationale, rassische, religiöse oder durch ihre ethnische Herkunft bestimmte Gruppe, gegen Teile der Bevölkerung oder gegen einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer vorbezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung zum Hass aufstachelt, zu Gewalt- oder Willkürmaßnahmen auffordert oder
          2. die Menschenwürde anderer dadurch angreift, dass er eine vorbezeichnete Gruppe, Teile der Bevölkerung oder einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer vorbezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung beschimpft, böswillig verächtlich macht oder verleumdet,

          wird mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.

          (2) Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer

          1. einen Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) verbreitet oder der Öffentlichkeit zugänglich macht oder einer Person unter achtzehn Jahren einen Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) anbietet, überlässt oder zugänglich macht, der

          a) zum Hass gegen eine in Absatz 1 Nummer 1 bezeichnete Gruppe, gegen Teile der Bevölkerung oder gegen einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer in Absatz 1 Nummer 1 bezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung aufstachelt, b) zu Gewalt- oder Willkürmaßnahmen gegen in Buchstabe a genannte Personen oder Personenmehrheiten auffordert oder c) die Menschenwürde von in Buchstabe a genannten Personen oder Personenmehrheiten dadurch angreift, dass diese beschimpft, böswillig verächtlich gemacht oder verleumdet werden oder

          1. einen in Nummer 1 Buchstabe a bis c bezeichneten Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) herstellt, bezieht, liefert, vorrätig hält, anbietet, bewirbt oder es unternimmt, diesen ein- oder auszuführen, um ihn im Sinne der Nummer 1 zu verwenden oder einer anderen Person eine solche Verwendung zu ermöglichen.

          (3) Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer eine unter der Herrschaft des Nationalsozialismus begangene Handlung der in § 6 Abs. 1 des Völkerstrafgesetzbuches bezeichneten Art in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören, öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung billigt, leugnet oder verharmlost.

          (4) Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung den öffentlichen Frieden in einer die Würde der Opfer verletzenden Weise dadurch stört, dass er die nationalsozialistische Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft billigt, verherrlicht oder rechtfertigt.

          (5) Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer eine Handlung der in den §§ 6 bis 12 des Völkerstrafgesetzbuches bezeichneten Art gegen eine der in Absatz 1 Nummer 1 bezeichneten Personenmehrheiten oder gegen einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer dieser Personenmehrheiten öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung in einer Weise billigt, leugnet oder gröblich verharmlost, die geeignet ist, zu Hass oder Gewalt gegen eine solche Person oder Personenmehrheit aufzustacheln und den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören.

          (6) Absatz 2 gilt auch für einen in den Absätzen 3 bis 5 bezeichneten Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3).

          (7) In den Fällen des Absatzes 2 Nummer 1, auch in Verbindung mit Absatz 6, ist der Versuch strafbar.

          (8) In den Fällen des Absatzes 2, auch in Verbindung mit den Absätzen 6 und 7, sowie in den Fällen der Absätze 3 bis 5 gilt § 86 Absatz 4 entsprechend.

    • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      This would make it illegally to call for Trump to be locked up for the legitimate crimes has has and is committing and is obviously unconstitutional

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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        1 day ago

        No it would not.

        Calling for something reasonable after proven evidence is submitted that the person broke the law should not be criminalized, though even with that there is a time and place. Submit that stuff to a court, not to twitter.

        Either way, I’m talking about making random unsubstantiated claims or over generalizing claims like “all Jews are evil because they all support genocide” which obviously is bullshit

      • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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        2 days ago

        Coming from a country that has similar laws: it’s about inciting hatred or violence.

        Phrased as the previous commenter did, literally making it illegal to say lock them up, might not work.

        But.

        Saying Trump should be locked up for his crimes is not inciting hate or violence, because he has objectively committed crimes and the courts should do their job thankyouverymuch. Saying AOC should be locked up for made-up crimes based on made-up law is a different matter altogether.

        But I’m aware that the US legal system has a looong way to go before it can accomodate for such distinctions.

        • vortic@lemmy.world
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          But I’m aware that the US legal system has a looong way to go before it can accomodate for such distinctions.

          And we’re moving farther from that goal with every decision handed down by our Supreme Court.

        • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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          It is different but do you expect a trial for person A saying person B should be locked up to first hold a mock trial for person B without access or standing to actually do so correctly before they can render a verdict on person A? Objectively unreasonable.

          This is also massively prone to abuse. Even creating a plausible context for prosecuting someone creates the potential for effectively punishing critics even if everyone one of them gets off. This is further assuming that they actually get off even if innocent by your standards and mine.

          Then there is the simple fact that based on US law this is sufficiently contrary to our laws that it would require a constitutional amendment which would be impossible to pass. It doesn’t matter if it could be passed in your country it certainly couldn’t be passed in this one.

    • Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      We should make it so all public statements by a politician are considered as under oath. With harsh penalties for perjury.

  • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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    2 days ago

    I’m glad she left it at “First of all”, because anything more would just allow MTG to spin her conspiracy BS. That’s the Twitter-savvy AOC we love.

    • hazel@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      I don’t think it was worth following that link. I’ve now been to Newsweek and X and I feel gross. So here’s the photo, if anyone else is curious. Pretty sure the article said it’s not real, but I was kinda just skimming for an image of weird toes, so I’m not sure.

      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        Oh it is gross in many ways, no argument there, gross feet, gross tabloid / social media bs…

        But, this is apparently the state of modern US politics, and I wanted to give an at least semi-credible source, and not have to personally dive in to twitter to find the direct source.

        Also, this is, I think, the real photo.

        The fake one has MTG with only 3 visible toes on each foot.

        Here, hers are splayed badly, and her pinky toes are basically crushed under/behind the sandal and adjacent toe, but you can still make them out.

        EDIT: goddamnit.

        Yeah, here it is, the fake, based off of the above image, that circulated around twitter:

        • hazel@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          Ahh, thank you! So the truth is that she has webbed feet, which seems weird enough on its own that we don’t really need the 3 toe rumor.

          • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 days ago

            Not…webbed feet.

            Webbed feet is when there is … webbing, skin connecting between your toes, like a swimming flipper, as a duck does, though its usually not that pronounced when it occurs in humans.

            Hers have been deformed by her wearing extremely poorly fitting shoes her whole life, and/or possibly just had fucked up toe alignment to some extent, to begin with.

            More like foot bondage, but less extreme, and self imposed.

            Think of how if your teeth grow in funny, you may need braces to better align them.

            Well, this is sorta like that, but where the shoes are functionally the braces, and they’re all fucked up and force the toes into an extreme configuration over time.

            EDIT:

            Basically, MTG is Cinderella’s evil half or step sisters.

            They kept jamming their feet into badly sized and badly formed fancy shoes, and at least in the original version, they actually cut off parts of their feet to try and literally fill Cinderella’s shoes, but the Prince kept noticing the blood, and them walking awkwardly.

            MTG has just been jamming her feet into, eh, likely needle point pumps of some kind, for so long, that they’ve smushed her pinky toes under and behind the adjacent toe, and the other toes have splayed out to compensate for the lack of balance that causes.

  • F_OFF_Reddit@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Hey guys I really don’t enjoy this dystopian late stage capitalism…

    FUCK OFF YOU COMMUNIST RAT!!

    ehm wtf